Rules for riding on the road in Germany

yes, because they suddenly ended or were non existing. if you need roads with shoulders you’ll find them on the Autobahn :upside_down_face:

ok “Schnellstraße/Landstraße” is scary enough

It’s Germany, everything is a highway.

1 Like

Top pic, the path to the right of the road that is blocked off.

Nothing about a Landstraße could be scary.

No, it’s not.

Who says that’s a bikepath? Could just as well be an agricultural path.

1 Like

is that you, Mr. Scheuer?

1 Like

Don’t mention his name! :grin:

1 Like

:laughing:

Inside the city, i always use the bike lane. As explained before, it is mandatory. Of course horrible both the surface and all the traffic lights etc.

The most enjoyable rides are the state roads (landstrasse) between towns usually passing through forests (at least here in Munich).

1 Like

I don’t know, I live at the German/Austrian border. I find it more dangerous in Austria. Keeping the distance to cyclists is not known there. The same in Italy. You have to choose your routes wisely. Road cycling can be dangerous everywhere these days. However, we have plenty of small roads with little traffic. And these days with the wider tires you can avoid certain roads by choosing gravel alternatives. Regions differ.

1 Like

Germany and cars is like America with guns. :wink:

4 Likes

Disagree all you want

Hyperbole.

Nobody? Anywhere? So, more hyperbole.

Do 141 and you get - in addition to the fine - a one month driving ban. I have no problem with higher fines and easier driving bans. But 25 years of being a lawyer tell me that the problem is not the rules, but the enforcing.

Probably it highly depends on where you ride in Germany.
But I can totally agree that it is very dangerous on the roads. Many drivers respect the 2,5m distance rule. But on really every ride I experience 2-3 situations, when some drivers act really aggressively, ruthless or are just old and don’t know anymore what they are doing.
Right now I am in Italy, drivers overtake with far less distance, but I feel more safe.
In France I felt the safest. It was like they respect cyclist a lot more than Germans do.

To the question: You can ride wherever you want (of course not on highways, other rules are seldom enforced) in Germany, but if drivers see any other road (bike path or not), where they think you should ride, expect them to act aggressively.

3 Likes

Still doesn’t get around the fact the number of people breaking the Tempolimit by such a wide margin is beyond anything I’ve ever experienced anywhere else. This discussion makes me want to get onto that bike path as soon as possible.

4 Likes

true

I even feel safer cycling in South Africa

2 Likes

And what exactly is that number and how wide is the margin?

You do realize that exceeding the speed limit by 40 km/h or more can realistically only happen on the Autobahn, where bikes aren’t allowed, anyway?

You do realize that, each day, many thousands of cyclists ride their bikes on German roads and nothing bad happens?

The plural of anecdote is not data. Go look to other countries and you will find that the quality of diving abilities in Germany, for all the shortcomings that undoubtedly exist, is higher than in many other places.

He posted pictures of almost empty roads. In the last picture, the white car seems to be too close while overtaking. No way to tell speed from a still.

I think you are taking this a bit too personally and literally, we are all just priming a discussion. ; )

Of course, not everyone drives like a maniac in Germany, no one is saying that. Anecdotal evidence is all we can go on - I can’t go and measure everyone’s speed and driving data. However, having a culture which stems from having no limits on parts of the autobahn would trickle down to other things driving wise - it is a mentallity difference. I personally think this lack of tempolimit is completely outdated and very unsafe. Also, extremely ironic for an environmentally aware country.
I drove home from Munich at 11pm the other night, I was driving 120km/h, my car is practically at its limit. I would count about 40 cars which drove past my over 200km/h. To say this is not intimidating is not being realistic. Also, if you are “blocking” the overtaking lane, someone holding your bumper to get past is very common, and you can see the frustration of not getting out of the way. There is a major difference here between Germany and other countries: the cars (at least to me) appear much more powerful in Germany. Of course if I gave this to a Brit or an Italian, similar things would happen, but a fiat punto does not have the same clout as Merc.

Regarding my “data”. 70km/h on a country lane, overtaken by multiple cars doing 150km/h. There are cycle paths near by. Again, not universal amongst Germany by any means, but just my own experience and from this thread, many others too. So, imagine being a cyclist on those lanes in Bavaria. This is why the Garmin Varia is a godsend.

And FYI, I used to live in Germany for many years, so I am aware of how it works.

1 Like

Ok, lets talk about numbers.
Exceeding speedlimit by 40km/h happens regularly on country roads(70->110) and even in cities (50->90) when streets are straight with several lanes.

More important numbers are death cyclist: In Germany 450/year (87000 injured), in France for comparison 175/year. (Germany does not have more than twice as many citizens).
Numbers increased since 2010 by 17%.

2 Likes

As a German living abroad and having lived in the past view years in a lot of different countries, in my opinion, Germany is way above average when it comes to cycling safety and infrastructure. Of course, there are busy roads and reckless drivers, but there are idiots all around the globe (as I said, I get around ;)).

A few points regarding that:

  • Having cycling paths in the first place and an extensive cycling network is a luxury no every country has
  • Germans think their roads have a bad surface - well, try riding in the UK or US. There is a reason gravel bikes are popular around there. I’ve seen roads that consisted of 50% of tarmac and 50% of potholes. That is sometimes scary and sketchy.
  • There is a cycling culture in Germany and car drivers are used to seeing cyclists and (most of them) know how to handle it and follow road rules. In other countries the rule is: The bigger party (car) has the right of way
  • Germany has a huge road network, therefore it’s most of the time possible to avoid busy roads (not totally, but mainly). Since you seem to be from the Starnberg area: For example Munich to Starnberg most of the cars are on the Autobahn, you can take either the “Alte Olympia Strasse” (a road next to the Autobahn) or through the car-free forest path through the Forstenrieder Wald to get there. My point being, there are so many agricultural ways and small country roads with good tarmac where you can have a pretty relaxed ride. In New Zealand for example you have one highway from A to B and you share your lane with a lot of trucks driving full speed.

My point is not that cycling in Germany is perfect (it’s not the Netherlands), but in a global context, I find the picture that get’s painted here overly negative. Sharing the road with other people always includes a risk.

Riding maybe, stopping with an expensive bike might be a different story :upside_down_face:
(I apologize for that bad joke - couldn’t resist)

6 Likes