OK! Now I understand. I think. However in my opinion it’s confusing to use the same histogram format and completely change the meaning of what it represents with only a subtle name change. I completely missed that it now says “Athlete level”.
I think what’s frustrating is that all of the official messages on here seem to say essentially “trust the AI” but it is clearly wrong about my FTP. Threshold workouts are very easy at my current FTP, which is already 10% higher than the AI recommended one. So, obviously, I’m having a hard time just doing whatever the AI says.
What threshold workouts are you doing? There’s a massive range of difficulty within that category whilst maintaining the same FTP - compare Pyramidal, which you talked about, with, say Goethe. A very different proposition…… If you have future workouts ‘pinned’, as suggested above, then the system can’t progress you forward.
Are you on a TR plan, out of interest, or self-selecting? It might help if you were to post your calendar to show what’s going on.
I get that. I’m not a huge fan of “trust the AI” messaging. I know there were a lot of cases where people said “there’s no way I could do that workout, it’s too hard” and when they tried it was spot on, so I can see why people say not to judge before trying.
In your case, without knowing the full context, I’m guessing the AI is hedging a little bit with not a lot of data to go off of. But if you ended up rating a threshold ride easy, you can bet it will be cranking up the intensity quickly.
What are the levels for those threshold workouts?
If they are over 4 you may have a point - below 3 then your FTP is set too high.
Personally I like my FTP set to a point where level 5 threshold workouts are recommended - TrainerRoads stance is that it should be level 3 or above.
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This means the AI thinks your FTP is set too high - did you accept your FTP recommendation 
If you are sure of your current FTP setting then ignore the warning and see how you get on with the 3.3 workout - could be that the AI is just playing it safe and easing you back in 
But to be clear - the system is trying to give you level 3.3 workouts with your new lower FTP - that is what “trust the AI” means in this situation. They shouldn’t be too easy because your drop in FTP is counter balanced with an increase in workout level. But if it does feel easy just mark it easy and the system will learn.
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I just unpinned your two Threshold workouts from this week, and the software replaced them with much more appropriate workouts than what you had selected, so it seems that the AI is working here.
Doing those workouts and answering the surveys honestly would give the software plenty of data as to whether your FTP is set correctly or not.
The problem is, you’ve done three hard workouts in a row already this week, so I wouldn’t recommend doing two more.
This is another reason to get on a training plan and let us prescribe your workouts for you.
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This is the root of my frustration. They were not hard workouts. They were all easy. The AI thinks they should be hard because it’s got my FTP wrong. But there’s no way for me to tell it that without just turning everything off until it detects it correctly.
To be clear I don’t care what the FTP number is. I don’t see it as a high score or anything. I simply want an appropriate baseline for my training. Very clearly if I’m not remotely tired after three ought to be hard workouts then it’s not the right baseline.
Edit: please note these workouts were very easy at an FTP 10% higher than the one the AI recommended. It’s absolutely miles off.
Did you rate the rides easy in the survey?
Yes. What I do not want to do is follow a plan that is far too easy just to teach the AI that it’s wrong when I already know that.
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Have you tried selecting one of the ‘harder’ alternates to the AI recommended sessions? That should get you to the level you need more quickly.
The prescribed workouts shouldn’t be too easy even with a lower FTP.
If you put an over-under threshold workout on you calender now what level it is?
Do the raw watts look sensible?
Yes. But to do that I’ve had to turn off fatigue detection and pin the workouts, otherwise it swaps them out.
I think what’s happened here is that TrainerRoad have shipped a new approach which it has decided as a matter of policy to be inflexible about. There’s no “reject detected FTP” for example. Only accept. I don’t want to accept a value that is clearly wrong, and I don’t want to follow a training plan that is too easy just to teach the AI that it’s wrong when I know it’s wrong. AI is great in many ways. I’m a heavy user of it in multiple contexts, and I’m excited about its potential to help me be a better cyclist. But this algorithm is not infallible and it fees like every response here is based on the assumption that it is.
I’ve been using TrainerRoad for many years. What I valued about it was a great library of workouts and a great in workout experience when I’m on the turbo. Now, these new features have made it extremely hard to use it this way, all while promising me that the approach is superior when very very clearly in this moment it is not. I’m sure eventually it will find the right level for me, but at the moment it is a degraded experience which I’m being told is superior.
I put one on for today. It chose Vennacher -3 which looks OK I think? I’ll do that and see what happens.
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I agree, it can only ever be as good as the data it works from and even then will have less than perfect information.
How much structured training at your correct FTP (ie where you think it should be) have you done in the past couple of months, that TR can see? If the answer is ‘not very much’ then you can either do an FTP test, or can you manually input your own FTP and then choose a threshold workout (using the List tab) that looks about right to you, and rate accordingly?
EDIT: Let us know how you get on with Vennacher -3.
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As mentioned in my original post, very little. I understand that makes it harder for the algorithm to perform. What has been frustrating is the app silently replacing workouts and telling me I’m fatigued when I’m not. I can see that those are very useful features when it has a lot of recent data from me. But I think there’s a missing feature, because it seems to be over relying on workout feedback. When there’s a big yellow box saying I’m fatigued, there should be a way for me to say “no I’m not”. When I’m given an FTP which is clearly wrong there should be a way to reject it. These actions would also help to teach the algorithm so that it can be more precise. As it is I’ve had to turn fatigue detection off entirely. I do understand that I’m an edge case given my long layoff, but I hope something like these features will be added.
Will report back after Vennacher -3
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When you get that big yellow or red box, click on the top of the banner. It will let you ignore the yellow or red warning and select the original planned workout.
Have you tried doing that or know about that feature?
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I didn’t know about that, no. Thanks for letting me know!
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Again, don’t pin those workouts to your calendar.
Use Workout Alternates to pick a harder workout for today when you’re ready to ride. Then simply load up that workout and knock it out. Your survey response will likely have an effect on your upcoming workouts if that workout was too easy, but we can’t adapt future workouts if they are pinned.
It seems like this is keeping you stuck in a loop of doing a workout that didn’t feel right, but not allowing us to adapt things…
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OK, gotcha thanks. The reason I was pinning was because it was always too easy or even saying not to ride. I’ll unpin and see how it adapts.