Just had a bump in AI FTP 260 to 268. I felt it coming - sweet spot workouts in the 7s threshold in the 5s. Accepted the new AI FTP but no ‘adaptations’ in future workouts. So my next two workouts a 90 min sweet spot and a 90 threshold become ‘stretch’ sessions.
I was under the impression that there might be a wholesale down shift in progression levels in future workouts if the FTP has raised. The next 2 sessions would have both been hard now i expect to be really tough.
Correct me if my assumptions are wrong. They probably are.
It sounds like your PL’s went down making those workouts a Stretch that should have triggered an adaptation but it didn’t for some reason. One reason I think is your plan is stuck if so contact support@trainerroad.com another reason there might be no alternates in the selected duration of planned workouts. If adaptations don’t happen a manual work around is to use the alternates function and select a productive workout.
You’re correct that your PLs should go down when your FTP increases. @HLaB’s guess that your plan was stuck looks to be correct – I refreshed your plan for you and your PLs adjusted to reflect your recent FTP increase.
I’m trying to follow a TR plan for a while, and see how it goes. Do you find that 5-7 is the range of PLs where you get an FTP bump? 8-10 PLs look hideous, and also tricky to find long enough stretches of road for.
I do virtually all my training indoors. The recent FTP bump of 2.3% came when SS at >6.0 and TH >5.0. Both 90 min durations.
I dont understand how the higher PLs fit into the training program as i would certainly expect an FTP increase when PLs are 6-7. I guess by not accepting the FTP increase, the workouts develop longer durations at SS and TH, sustained power and ability to accept sustained period supra-threshold (but then again of course you can because your FTP is higher)
The higher the PL the longer your TTE is most likely. So if I want to be able to hold my ftp for 50-70 minutes for long events I do. Then I’d want get my threshold level up to about 6 maybe 7.
For me I’ve found a threshold PL 4.5-5.5 means my ftp is fairly accurate.
Thanks Chef. I should add for context that i used to bump my FTP by feel before AI FTP was introduced. Now i use the AI exclusively.
I find i don’t want to ‘waste’ an available training day on FTP ramp assessment plus they’re pretty horrible. I’m aware there are some adaptations from FTP test but i feel that my time is better used on a 90 min workout. The AI FTP changes have worked well for me - up as well as down!
i’m gonna be a broken record, but just because you can achieve a high progression level in SS, doesn’t mean FTP increases. I routinely do workouts that would be rated beyond 10 for SS in my progression but when testing my FTP with long form tests my FTP is the same. I’m gonna keep flying the flag for this, I feel like people are getting fooled into artificially higher FTPs given to provide the illusion of “progress” (or at least an overstatement of progress)
I had an identical issue. It took a couple of days for AI to work out it needed to adjust my remaining workouts in the block.
Not a big issue for me as my AI FTP sits in my rest week.
Looks like it’s been fixed now, from the comments below.
they may when people are new, but eventually those noob gains disappear and vo2 blocks (like proper 3-5min max efforts, and not whatever percent of ftp used in TR workouts). i know of two people (working with same coach) who gained 20w FTP following a vo2 block.
My last 20-minute FTP test was Feb 19 this year. Mere minutes later I completed Reinstein. A 20-minute FTP test is by definition an effort at 105.3%. I think that means that either I under-performed on the test, or O2 uptake is my limiter moreso than is muscular fatigue, & therefore I’d benefit from VO2 max training.
You’re right that being capable of completing a session with a high Workout Level at Sweet Spot doesn’t necessarily mean one’s FTP has increased – we know that changes in FTP come from training in all zones consistently over time.
Our highest-rated Sweet Spot workout is Pendleton, which has 2hr20m of total time spent at Sweet Spot. I’d agree with you that it’s a doable workout, but only for athletes who have built up to that level of fitness first. Further, once an athlete gets to that point, I’d wager that there’s a pretty good chance their FTP has gone up since the last time they tested (this can, of course, vary from athlete to athlete).
If an athlete can bang out 2+hrs of Sweet Spot, that’s usually a sign that they are getting faster, and that it’s time to reassess their FTP and continue pushing towards their goals for the year.
For those following a TR plan, the exception here is during the Specialty Phase, when athletes may be more focused on increasing time in zone to really sharpen up their race-specific fitness before a big event. At that point, we won’t have AI FTP Detection run so as to allow athletes to build up that TIZ. If athletes do get over Level 9, though, they’ll be prompted with a 2% FTP bump to ensure they don’t run out of Productive workouts to do in the Specialty Phase. This is a pretty rare scenario, though, and athletes are able to decline the suggested increase if they’d like.
