Progression level decay

On Career (web) my Endurance was 2.7 after the ride and before matching and rating:

After matching and rating…

Calendar (web):

Clicking on it (web):

Workout view with PLs:

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You’re right to be confused, as this was not the intended or expected outcome for your ride. I forwarded this for our engineers to have a look :grimacing:.

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My ride this AM told me I progressed 0.2 (on the android app). Yet the web version tells me I progressed 0.0.

Some times web tells me the ride is Achievable, while the iOS app or android app say its Productive.

There seems to be some kind of disconnect between the app/web

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I agree with this, but that should be presented as such

If I can do a 3x15 threshold ride, my endurance should also go up, but it seems that the system doesnt care about it

I wasn’t confused, it was clear that something changed intentionally or unintentionally.

Thanks for fowarding.

Yes I’ve seen that, and for the most part am using the web 99% of the time. At one point in recent months, the web was considered more authoritative. FWIW I’m seeing the same on web, TR beta app iOS, TR beta app macOS.

I think I know what happend on my case…

I think before this AM, my PL on vo2Max was 4.7,
After the ride it was updated to 4.9.
Now the level is reporting 4.9 and the ride reports 0.0 added to progression level.

So it seems that the app doesnt support historical data like this. Say I would like to know my last ride game me a 0.2, and my PL went from 4.7 to 4.9. But I dont think is happening. I think the PL increase we see is based on current PL and not the PL we had at that time. Maybe (hopefully) I am wrong.

Yes that is plausible, but doesn’t explain the other part of my situation where endurance dropped from 2.7 to 2.2 after completing a 4.8 workout… unless outdoor workouts PLs are now being changed based on actual vs target power (which would be new behavior). Because of my extended off-season break, the last +/- change on a calendar workout tile was on August 17th.

Lately I’ve been very happy with progressions and workout selections of AT. I’m not sure if the formula has been adjusted or it took a couple months in the beginning for AT to learn me. Maybe both.

This happened to me. I did a ramp test a few months ago to finish my season out after I was added to the closed beta. My progression levels stayed the same. The last 6 weeks or so I have been riding unstructured and lifting more. A couple days ago I kicked my new plan with a ramp test and AT reset all my progression levels down to 1, even tho my ftp was 25 points higher. I thought that was odd but I will just ride it out and see what happens.

I am a little concerned about the workouts being too easy for a while.

My experience as well. Though I will say that I added a B event after the A event I tapered for, and it scheduled a stretch workout for me in V02. I think there may be some logic behind the scenes on this.

The displayed PLs are definitely funky. One of my few and biggest complaints. I’d suggest they use AP from all rides to help set endurance PL and maybe use a combo of AP/NP/TSS from any ride to set tempo PL. Once you get past those you can’t really assess PL without doing the workouts regularly. But it just makes no sense to be a level 10 tempo and SS and have a level 3 endurance. Right now the categorization is just binned too tightly to what workouts you complete in a given zone target. My hunch is this all gets fixed once they can rate any unlabeled ride with PLs.

Just a reference. I did a VO2Max workout on September 25th. It was a 5.8. When I did my first VO2Max workout this morning since then it had decayed to a 4.6. I was able to complete a 5.4 this morning. However, it was definitely harder than I expected. Not Very Hard or All Out, but Hard. I would guess that it probably over-estimated the decay. Maybe a 5.0 rather than a 4.6, but this is just one data point. I have no idea how they calculate the decay.

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If that is true it is really strange and sounds like a bug.

Looking at some of the other comments by Russell and JimC, and knowing that simply doing 4+ hours/week of zone2 allows me to do much harder vo2max workouts vs doing SSB MV (the plans before Feb 2021), you can count me as someone that very carefully parses anything TR says about PLs and fitness.

I think this should be expected. If your FTP increases substantially you should recalibrate (whether from zero or whatever I can’t say). Imagine otherwise you would get similar/harder workouts as now but with a much higher FTP. People have complained about this for years, the first week after a FTP test could be really hard.

Just to intersect quickly, appreciate all the input :pray: this thread is about decay over time, not reduced levels after an FTP test.

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Perfect comparison, my endurance workout mentioned about was exactly the same time span. So over 2 weeks your vo2 level dropped 1.2 points, my endurance 1.0 points.

Would be interesting to know if the rate of decay over time is also dependent on your max level. Eg decay from level 7 is more than from 5.

Nice! It worked pretty well then.

Thanks, nice example!

Probably worth noting that doing non TR workouts will dramatically change PLs. My coach assigned a sprint workout that TR rated a 260… not TSS, sprint progression level.
So you end up with a chart like this.

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Hi Sean, did you get a reply from the engineers? If I don’t hear back, will forward to support@trainerroad.

TR classification doesnt do vo2max well…

Yes- this was related to a known issue but your example was helpful to see, and is being worked on as we speak. Thanks for sharing it!

Right now level classification on custom workouts can occasionally miss the mark. We’re aware of the issue, and we have some ongoing projects related to improving it.

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Is it ALL custom wo or mostly if they have vo2max repeats?
For the most part, the WO i have created looks in line with what i would expect as difficulty rating goes, except when they have power north of 130%.
Thats when things get crazy!

Part of that work in addressing custom WO classification is isolating when and under what circumstances efforts aren’t being measured accurately. Its ongoing and applies widely to custom workouts, not just higher intensity efforts. :sunglasses:

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