MDVP attacking to drop WVA. Big energy expenditure for no gain. He and WVA should’ve both been fully conserving until the final climbs to cover whatever Pog was capable of. They knew he had to full send both of the last two regardless of the situation
JV playing a bluff with a rider in the front that they didn’t have faith in. Either give him a free hand and hope he can go with Pederson and get ahead before the final climbs or pull him back immediately if you don’t have faith in his ability to compete from that group
Agreed, but could MDVP and WVA ever really agree to cooperate like that? Tactically it makes perfect sense to strike a gentleman’s agreement to work together to mutually defend against Pog’s strengths, and then (hopefully) fight it out amongst themselves to the line. I don’t think that could ever happen given their history of competition and seeming distrust of each other (remember the couch?). Pog’s win was well-earned.
Do you think he was there as a bluff, or as an option to do exactly what he did?
That seemed like the perfect use of his abilities. I kind of figured that their plan was to get someone up there purely to provide a launching pad for what I assume they hoped would be Laporte and WvA coming together.
I’m not suggesting they would’ve had to agree to anything. Regardless of WVA’s legs and performance, there was no benefit to be gained for MDVP to dropping WVA at that point in the race. He knew he would have to stay with Pog over the climbs and that was his biggest risk factor - Pog would do the attacking on the final climbs, and that would either drop WVA or not - the same was MDVP attacking on that climb
If you’re counting on him to drag WVA back after being dropped on the climbs you’re planning on WVA to get dropped again on the remaining climbs. There’s no way that they hoped WVA would magically recover and be able to stay with whomever had dropped him on an earlier climb.
I think their hope was he would fulfill a Trentin-esque role and drive the group once WVA made it there with Pog and/or MDVP - but that seems of very little value to me since WVA doesn’t need that group to be paced - he isn’t hoping to drop Pog and MDVP (I mean, sure he is hoping that, but not realistically), he’s hoping to come to a small group sprint with them, and a domestique in a group of 12 doesn’t make that more or less likely, particularly if you don’t believe that rider will make it over the climb with the leaders
I agree, that’s what I’m saying. I think that’s why he was there. To provide assistance late in the race. Obviously not the assistance they hoped. He was never going to win from that group, and I don’t know they could have put a better person up there.
It looked like JV were in the driver’s seat when they had Laporte in the pivotal selection. But ask Ineos how it’s not always a numbers game lol.
I guess my point is - it is really hard to come up with a scenario where his assistance would’ve meaningfully helped move the needle. Thus, I think of it as a bluff. They, rightly(?), had little confidence in his ability to go for his own result out of that group, and I’m grasping at very weak straws to find something he could’ve done to help the team win from that situation
I heard that MVDP got caught in the back early in the race and things became separated, so Alpecin had to work to get him back on I am sure he had to expel more energy and had more stress than the others when this was happening. I also heard he had a mis shift on one of the climbs and dropped back a few riders due to it.
That is a great point about MDVP attack to drop WVA. I wonder who MVDP thought was a larger threat Pog or WVA?
I am not sure the toll that huge crash took on WVA, but judging by his knee he was not in great shape afterwards.
It’s hard not to judge tactics with full benefit of hindsight.
MDVP sensed weakness in WVA and decided to eliminate the threat based on losing E3 by having not dropped WVA hard enough a week before. The move made sense at the time, but was bad in hindsight because 1) MDVP burned too many matches with bad positioning early in the day 2) WVA was going to drop as soon as Pog attacked anyway 3) Pog was on an incredible day and MDVP really needed to conserve all strength. Numbers 2-3 are things that he couldn’t fully know at the time he made the decision.
As for Jumbo not going all in on van Hooydonck, I don’t think think that would have made a difference regardless. Mads Pederson and Powless certainly went all in on the break and the result was the same. If Hooydonck stayed committed, bridged and worked with Pederson then the result would have just been to get demolished by Pederson in the sprint. Best case scenario Jumbo ends up with a podium. In hindsight better, but they decided to risk it all for something better and it didn’t pay off.
Jorgensen said he was cooked from bridging up to the break. So I don’t think he had anything left in the tank to sprint.
MVDP used up his team hanging back but said he was sheltered and didn’t have to waste energy. And he said that late in the race, having team members doesn’t help because the race is made on the bergs and no helper can stay with the big 3. Even Pidcock and other “leaders” were shelled. MVDP said it was his best Flanders race ever, he just got beat by someone stronger.
I have a hard time seeing the race turn out any other way unless Pog crashed out or somehow got massively distanced from echelons or something else. Watching him close down the break solo was just crazy. He was on a whole different level.
Saw MVDP somewhere saying that from when he was dropped to the finish line he never dropped below 400 watts. And Pog was still pulling away. Like you say, he was just on another level that day.
I also think Jumbo did not play the team card very well.
Having Nathan van Hooydonck in the front group was good, Laporte was there to cover when necessary and I think did his job but when Pedersen rode to the front group, Benoot should have moved with him to also get to that front group. Then if necessary, one of them could have dropped to pull back WvA while the other one could then continue to pull when WvA caught back up.
Then again I think they assumed that there would not be an attack out of that small group before the last time on the Oude Kwaremont and I think they were counting on them already having closed the gap to the front group a lot more (which they were doing quite rapidly up until VdP attacked) by the time they would have gotten to the last time Oude Kwaremont, so Wout would immediately have had van Hooydonck’s support and would not have to ride this long on his own.
I would say absolutely yes! He obviously has to maintain this level for many years to match the Palmares of Merckx etc, but on a talent and ability basis, I don’t think anyone could do what he’s doing.
Man, I hope he’s properly clean. He is the kind of personality that is really good for cycling.
Eddy Merckx won 3 monuments, 2 grand tours, and set the hour record…IN ONE YEAR. Yes, Pog is amazing, but I don’t think he’s surpassed that kind of talent…YET.
Not to forget the consistency with which Pogacar wins. Even talents like MVDP have to work towards a peak, which after all only makes them human. But Pogacar? It feels like he maintains his level all season long. And currently this level is just a step above everyone else’s. The way he passed the other riders during the attack: on another level! It’s just amazing to watch…
You asked if he was the most talented racer ever and I answered explaining why I think he is not…YET. Saying “the level of competition is higher” isn’t really a good argument imo. People always think the level of competition is higher in their own era. It’s like saying “things were so much better back in the day”. Every generation does it.
I will admit however that when people start saying things like “The level of competition is so high today and that rider can do things other humans can’t, he’s just on another level”…I immediately have dark thoughts. My own personal bias.
Yes, but I clarified because (in my mind) you’re not talking talent, but overall success.
I don’t disagree, I still have my doubts. Last year’s tour gave me a lot more confidence in Pog’s cleanliness, though I have no idea. The cynic in me is still skeptical.
I doubt Merckx was likely any cleaner. Maybe just different stuff.
