Not “hot and bothered” but I do take issue with taking any drug with the intent to gain an advantage. Be it directly linked to performance or not, morally I don’t think it is right (I know some may disagree and I respect that). Just my opinion, but if you are chasing every rabbit hole for an advantage (i.e. Albert Salazar) it starts you down a slippery slope.
I am reminded about an article I read regarding Levi Leepinhimer when he tested positive for PEDs:
Do I make this decision to dope and continue to see how far I can go?" he recalled asking himself in 1999. "Or do I regret it for the rest of my life because I didn’t find out how good I was.
His regret in 1999 was not taking the PEDs, it was missing out on “how good he could be” if he didn’t take them. This is what I meant by cheating culture and as you mentioned “do whatever it takes.” And it’s not just sports… poker games, academics, investments, business, science, medical fields, relationships…. the list goes on and on.
I understand the mantra “if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.” It’s just not one I will ever support or live by.
So in the US do you need a prescription to buy it? Here in Au it’s not prescribed for weight loss, but no doubt it’s being used off-label quite a bit. And there’s a shortage so the people who actually need it can struggle to find it. Gotta admit, the TR promo/YT vid makes me cringe a bit, I don’t reckon it’s the sort of thing Chad would have been cool with.
I was under the impression that these drugs also suppressed appetite very heavily and I don’t think this would be particularly compatible with endurance sport? I.e., literally makes the idea of eating nauseating in some cases.
I know that in the past, lots of drugs have been used which are supposed to stop fat gain and preserve lean mass, but I would have thought Ozempic etc would come with pretty high penalties for a sport that relies on carbs a lot…
I would be tempted myself except that food is one of life’s greatest pleasures and the idea of not enjoying food is extremely depressing to me
How do you define drug? Asking because we all do lots of things to gain an advantage, to varying affect
I get caught up in these discussions because of the gray areas and have ultimately decided the regulating bodies role is to answer which are acceptable. Until they weigh in I can’t be mad if someone is doing something
I recognize this approach isn’t perfect, just think it is least bad
Of course there is. It takes only a few seconds to find. Professional cyclists have always been a risk group for neuroses around weight and nutrition. ED and Disordered eating are common at all levels and will often follow an athlete their entire career.
There is no equivalency between GLP-1 Agonists and under eating. It’s a completely different mechanism. The effects are profound, especially from a mental health standpoint. These drugs and precursors have been in use for several years, going back to 2018 and probably earlier in state-sponsored athletic programs.
A friend of mine (a doctor & rec cyclist, that actually prescribes it) used it personally to help lose 60 pounds. We were actually taking about this over the weekend after I had listened to that podcast, and he felt that his ability to do cardio was so blunted that it was likely not beneficial for pros at all unless they used it in the off season only when they weren’t training. Even at .25 mg / week he said he struggled to make power over like zone 2, and also felt like he couldn’t absorb nutrients as well and his recovery was much worse. He did wonder if maybe using a microdose like .05-.10 mg may give some effect for them without destroying their power and recovery, but wasn’t convinced it could ever be used in season.
Interesting! I take 1 mg/week. I’m OK on the bike, certainly not as fit as I’d like; but more to the point, not as fit as I feel like I should be. I wonder if the Ozempic could be one of the culprits (in addition to other things within my control). I guess that’s just one more motivation point to try to get off of it!
That’s actually an interesting anecdote. GLP1-RAs are known to impair hepatic gluconeogenesis… and hepatic gluconeogenesis is quite important in higher intensity endurance exercise. I wonder if the experience your friend had is related to that effect.
Also, I forgot to mention it previously, but the other potential issue with these drugs is loss of lean muscle mass. There has been varying signals in the literature to date, but it seems like for many people taking it anywhere from 10-50% of the weight lost is muscle weight. Most people still lose more fat than muscle, hence there is an overall improvement in body composition. But many (most?) people still lose muscle mass while on it.
Isn’t that because the population is mostly sedentary? Wouldn’t the same population also lose the same muscle mass if they calorie restricted an equivalent amount? A friend is on Ozempic and he has been losing around 2 pounds per week. That’s a 7000 calorie deficit per week.
TLDR: Wegovy was a horrible experience, you couldn’t pay me to take that drug again.
Figured I would share my experience with everyone here. Starting in ~ Aug 2019 my health started to deteriorate even though I set 2 70.3 PR’s that summer and was training really well. In 2020 I started having back issues that stopped me from running and gyms were closed so I couldn’t swim so I road 7500mi that year, my AVG is 4500-5000. By June 2021 the issue ballooned so bad I couldn’t ride a bike anymore due to the pain. I was in constant pain, couldn’t sleep, and no one could help. I had my entire body MRI’ed from my head to my knees. X-rays, blood work, I saw every doctor recommended, PT, Chiro, etc. Nothing was medically wrong, no one could help. Meanwhile I was gaining weight and working with nutritionists. Surprise the nutritionists couldn’t help either, I followed everything exactly and was still gaining weight. So, in December 2022 I saw an obesity doctor as I had gained 65#. For no real reason I was starting to see some physical improvement. The pain was getting less, I was sleeping again, and starting to lift weights again. The obesity doctor wanted me to use a weight loss drug. I did not want to put any chemicals in my body but nothing else had worked. I did all the research; we meet twice just to talk about the different drugs and their pros/cons. She pushed for me to get on Wegovy.
So, in early January 2023 I started Wegovy, I was able to get insurance coverage for it as I wouldn’t have been able to afford it without. We used the drug a little off label only increasing the dose when I stopped seeing results so I never even got to the max dosage. I was on it for a little more than 5 months and it was TERRIBLE. By nature I’m a morning person, 5-530am I’m up and going. On the drug I couldn’t get out of bed until 7-730am I was so tired. Even then I was just completely exhausted. I was constantly nauseous and when I’d eat it would get worse. I haven’t puked since my college days ~20 years ago and within 6 weeks on this I spent one night in agony as my body emptied everything in my stomach. When I started riding again my HR would shoot to max HR immediately even at like 40% effort and I saw zero fitness gains. In a little over 5 months I lost 15#. I decided to stop the drug because the side effects were too much to continue.
After I got off the drug it took about two weeks before I felt “normal” again. At that point I was able to start pushing my effort and distance up on my rides. I started doing intervals again and almost immediately my fitness started to improve and muscle was coming back. I’m down another 15# off Wegovy in the last ~7 months and have another 30# to go but I’ve also gained 10# of muscle back. I’m still chasing to get back to where I was. Hope is maybe in 2026 I’ll be able to race again but I’ve also accepted I might not get back there again. I’ll be 41 at that point and would have last raced at 36 so expectations will be difficult to manage.
With all the side effects that I’ve heard about and users are experiencing has made me just stunned at the stuff people will submit themselves to to ‘lose weight’. Users of those drugs are on the treadmill (no pun intended) for life. You go off it, and BOOM it’s back…
The horrific symptoms are just wow… (Unpopular opinion?)
The side effects are overstated. A lot of the people you with major side effects are going into starvation mode, trying to lose weight as fast as possible. I don’t care what drug you are on, if you don’t eat, you will have major issues.
Since I posted last, I’ve seen two local cyclists go on Wegovy and both lose an astronomical amount of weight . One guy is down 80+ pounds, the other is down 40+. They are FLYING compared to earlier in the year. I would bet a low dose wegovy or tirzepatide would be very effective at helping reduce body weight with minimal decrease in muscle mass, and I honestly can see cyclists using this as part of their weight management strategy.
People that need to lose 40-80+ pounds are probably the target patient for these drugs.
Elites have never seemed to have much problem being lean so semaglutide isn’t going to make Pogacar faster.
One can’t just do a low dose. My wife tried this drug. You start at the lowest dose (.25mg), you lose 6 pounds and then you plateau, then you go to .5mg, lose some more, then 1mg, then 1.5, and on up to 2mg. If you discontinue, you’ll probably gain it back.
I asked my doc about it, and she said ‘You are fine’, and ‘Ride more, eat less, cross train!’. For some, it’s not that easy.
Post surgery, lately, I’ve lost some weight, and have been more sedate than I ever usually have been. I just don’t feel like eating, and when I do, I’ve passed on the Factor meals, and haven’t had a problem passing on the desire for booze. But it’s just me. There are other people that, like my mom, could probably benefit from it, but for the people that have serious side effects, and those that claim these have done nothing for them, the best thing, as ever, is to stay out of hospitals and only take the drugs you really need. shrug
American’s have this bent where we seem to need a pill to make our lives better. shrug But a pro racer risking taking this drug? In that case, why don’t they just stop testing for stuff and let people do whatever they want. I mean hell, when my mom was a kid, they prescribed uppers for weight loss. It seemed to work, she said. Whatever…
