PowerMatch Experiences

Chad, thank you so much for your super quick reply! I just changed my account settings, so you should be able to see the workout now.

I have been using power smoothing, and I wasn’t expecting anywhere near a smooth line, I was just surprised at the kinds of fluctuations that I was seeing, especially in comparison to seeing other people’s data. I have disabled power smoothing now, and from what I’ve heard in the “Guide to Erg Mode” from Ask a Cycling Coach 281, I will focus on steady cadence. We’ll see where that leaves me tomorrow.

My most recent FTP test was set based on trainer power. Wasn’t planning on taking another FTP test so soon after my last one, but it looks like I’m going to have to. I’ll prepare for the suffering tomorrow morning haha.

Again, thanks so much for all of your help!

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Looking at your Baxter with the power meter pedals, there is some really big variation. We tend to see more variation when using power meter pedals, compared to any source that comes further down the drivetrain path, but I will say that your current max/min range on the graph looks suspect.

I have no experience with the Favero, but make sure you have them installed and calibrated (zero offset) per manufacturer instructions. Aside from that, focusing on your cadence and trying to be extra steady is a good start. I hate the Wahoo setting, because I think it hides bad form and allows people to be sloppy and not see the actual results.

That isn’t black and white, but I see more problems from people using Wahoo ERG smoothing than I think we see benefits. Not really helpful now, but something that really bugs me about Wahoo and using that as a default setting.

Aside from that, you can possibly skip a ramp test with the hack I mentioned. But as usual, it is recommended to redo your FTP testing anytime you change power data measuring devices.

Good luck and hope your training and testing go well :smiley:

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Not really related to @CliffVT 's problem but does power smoothing in the trainer impact power match? As in, is the power the trainer says you are doing used as input of the power matching algorithm?

Good question, and AFAIK, the power smoothing in TR only affects the 3/4-digit numeric display you see in the live “power” field. It doesn’t affect the actual data captured in the ride file, not the power match calcs or used in the power info or the yellow line graph. The smoothing is just there to keep the numbers from bouncing too much, and tries to show a more stable average data.

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I meant the power smoothing done in the trainer (erg mode power smoothing as it’s called in the wahoo app) which impacts what the trainer broadcasts out and completely independent of the receiving end.

Ahhh, ok. That I don’t know.

I think I’ve fixed my issue!

Alright, so first thing this morning, I completed a ramp test, and experienced the same large fluctuations, as well as an enormous difference in FTP from my previous (265-427) although with power smoothing turned off in the wahoo app did make the jumps somewhat less extreme. Here’s the link to the workout.

However, after I completed my ramp test, I opened my wahoo app, and it finally picked up my power meter. I then went back into the TR app, set my power meter to cadence only, and then opened up Petit, and while I haven’t completed it due to time constraints, my power variation looks good now! Here’s the link to the partially completed workout.

After my class ends, I will re-do the ramp test, and hopefully I’ll get a more accurate readout.

Thanks for all of your help!

OK, this latest post raises more questions for me than it answers.

  1. Are you wanting to use the power meter pedals for power meter data inside and outside?
    • I ask because the info below shows that you would be using the trainer for inside, and the pedals for outside. Maybe you want that?
  1. I am guessing you have the Assioma Uno pedals?

    • If so, did you use the Favero app to “double” the power data?

    • I ask because you mention the massive difference between your FTP tests

    • This is huge and leads me to believe you turned on the doubling feature, which I am pretty sure you do NOT want to have turned on. This may well be inflating the power data to unrealistic degrees. I am no expert on the Faveros, but have seen this issue mentioned more than once, so we need to make sure what you have set at the moment.

  2. Your “fix” essentially ended up turning off the ERG smoothing for the Snap, so you are seeing more realistic power graphing from the trainer. But setting the power meter to cadence only essentially kills it from your power data info. I am guessing that you really want the power meter in use, so you have comparable data inside and outside, but maybe that’s not what you want?

Hm. I guess I was wrong. I do want to use my power meter as the power source, so that I can train using the same numbers both inside and outside.

I am guessing you have the Assioma Uno pedals?
If so, did you use the Favero app to “double” the power data?

Yes, I have selected the “double power” function, I was under the assumption that this was what I was supposed to do since it’s a single-sided power meter, I’ll turn this off, and give it a go.

I also now see that I haven’t actually connected my kickr to my power meter through the Wahoo app, because for some reason, this option is only available for iOS…

I’ll continue to play around with settings, to try and see if I can get anything to improve. Thanks for your help.

Again, I apologize, since I’m still fairly new to the platform, and using all of these devices.

I was wrong about doubling, sorry @mcneese.chad @CliffVT

You don’t need to pair the trainer to the power meter. (The trainer has its own version of power match but better to use the one from trainer road that built into the software)

but if you are new to cycling and smashing out 427 ftp there will be a few pro teams on the line for you :+1:

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I don’t think so. I just read this in another thread:

I also just finished another ramp test, and the power readout looked to be much closer to what I was expecting. Although, I will stick to my previous FTP of 265 for now, as I was already fatigued going into this test, so I don’t think it’s an accurate representation of what I can do.

Here are the results.

@jchappers I wish haha, my eyes went wide when I saw that number, and I couldn’t help but think that the test was far too easy. I think I’m pretty fit, but I don’t think I’m 6.7W/Kg fit lmao.

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  • No, using the Favero “double” option is NOT correct in this case:
  • Followed by this:
  • And this:

I’m observing an unexpected mismatch between the average power recorded by TrainerRoad and the average power recorded by my Garmin watch, even though the source power meter – Favero Assioma Duo – is the same.

Background: I am riding a Saris Magnus smart trainer and recently (somewhat accidentally) added my Assioma Duo pedals to my list of paired TR devices, which automagically triggered PowerMatch. I didn’t realize at first that this happened, but noticed that my power was varying more from target power and also that there were fewer discrepancies in the average power reading between my watch (paired with the Assiomas) and TR.

My RPE and HR are marginally but noticeably higher with PowerMatch on (about 5-6 BPM). One might think this is explainable by the Assiomas simply producing a lower power reading than the smart trainer (consistent with other experiences in this thread). However, my Assiomas have historically read about the same as my trainer, or even a bit higher.

Needless to say, Jacks+1 (4x8’ @105%) was an experience – the first time I’ve failed a workout. The first interval hurt; the last three felt like three successive ramp tests. I failed at minute 7 of the third interval, gutting out the remainder as best I could. On the fourth interval, I toned the power down to 94% from minute 2 to minute 5, then ramped up each minute thereafter, riding at 100% for the final minute.

Yesterday I rode the first ~105 minutes of Kailash before my wife stole my Garmin to go swimming. Before handing over my watch, I noted the average power on TR at the point that I stopped and saved the ride on the Garmin. TR’s average power was 210; the Garmin had an average power reading of 218.

The above suggest to me that I need to adjust the intensity to about 97% in order to keep my efforts in-line with TR’s intended intensity level.

It seems odd that the same PM would produce different average power readings on different devices. I like the idea of PowerMatch, as I’ll be using the Assiomas in races. My plan is to drop the Assiomas for the remainder of this block, then Ramp Test with PowerMatch turned on at the start of the next block.

Otherwise, someone will soon be using a spatula to scrape my melted body off the garage floor, as this block includes several weeks of those 105% supra-threshold beasts.

Anyway, just thought I’d toss this out there to see if anyone else has had a similar experience, or if someone might be able to explain the difference in the average power readings.

So I just started using powermatch when I got into the AT beta.

Todays ride my average power on the Saris H3 is 181
On the 4IIII 104 left side crank it is 196

Today I switched from the 4IIII to the Hammer for training as I wanted the lower number to get a harder workout. Should I be worried about this?

Thank you!

Why not stick with the same power meter and either increase wko intensity or choose a harder wko? I think you’ll end up in a mess of confusion otherwise as your FTP level changes between the two different measuring devices.

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Well the 4iiii at times shows up to 30 watts difference but the average is closer. I switched to the h3 today to get a harder workout. I was planning to stay on the h3 and not switch back to the 4iiii.

I guess my question is how power match actually works.

If I go to the 4iiii it’s reading at the crank so it reads higher. At the trainer as its farther away it reads lower.

If I use the crank it reads higher so the workout is easier and I would need to increase the resistance. If I go off the trainer then it’s harder and I don’t have to adjust anything.

What is the best protocol? I guess it comes down to pride and if I want a higher ftp.

Picking one power source, setting ftp against that one power source and training using that one power source.

I’d be using the 4i power source and powermatch to the H3.

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your FTP is what you are putting out though - choosing different devices to tell you it’s different numbers doesn’t mean your FTP went up or down. All you’re doing by selecting workouts based on an incorrect ftp is training unintended / the wrong levels.

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Cool. Thank you!

That is what I will do then. I will need to up to up the resistance by around 5% to make it the same resistance at the trainer. But that will also give me a 5% higher ftp.

Thanks again.