Just curious: what is the difference between original Powermatch and 2.0? Is it simply some bug fixes? I have never had an issue with Powermatch. (I just downloaded the iOS beta app and saw mention of Powermatch 2.0 for the first time.)
Happy to help speak to the most significant differences.
In the previous version of PowerMatch, there was a variable that would limit the amount of change we could make to an offset at a given point in time. New PowerMatch is taking the place of that, which gives us better control of the offset/control when the change happens, to ensure it happens in a ‘smoother’ way.
No. It happens when using the android app, but not with the new windows app.
So I just did a ramp test with my new Kickr Core. To see the difference, I only used the power of the trainer with the TR app, and recorded the data of the assioma duos with my garmin.
MAP with the Kickr Core in TR was 240w (180w FTP)
MAP with the Assioma Duos was 230w (173w FTP)
About a 4% difference.
Now I don’t know if I should use the power of the Kickr Core or use powermatch with my assiomas.
What do you think?
If you have access to the pedals each time, and presuming you plan to use the pedals outside, why wouldn’t you use the pedals & TR PowerMatch?
That will keep you using the “same tape measure” inside and out, which is the least number of variations in your power with respect to the rest of your setup and training. Unless you are you trying to ride the trainer without the power, I don’t see a problem.
Yes, that was what I was thinking too. I think it’s just the ego thing. 180 vs 173, the ego chooses the higher number 
I’ll change it to 173w and use powematch in the workouts then 
FTP is only a number.
We really need to get people to stop chasing it. Your fitness is NOT different with either device. The only difference is the stick you use to measure it.
Might as well think of each power device as being in different units (inches vs millimeters vs furlongs vs cubits).
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Just pick one and stick with it whenever possible. If you can use the same exact one in all cases, that is best.
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If you are using more than one device, resign yourself to the most likely reality that they won’t “match” and make slight adaptations in your approach as needed. Far from ideal, but until such a time that “Power” gets more control related to it (vs the self calibrated and regulated situation we have now), variation is the norm, not the exception (sad truth).
Yeah, I completely agree. In this case it makes sense to use the assiomas, since I have access to them both inside and outside. I’ll try it out in the next workout.
Thanks for the feedback
Hey all, first time posting in the forum here, but this is also the first time I’m not seeing an easy solution to what I just experienced. I apologize if this has been answered previously.
So I’ve been using my Kickr Snap since December, started on Zwift, but I made the switch here to TR in February. Have been loving it and have seen real gains, but something odd just happened. I’ve been using the snap as power source, and other than a hiccup or two, I haven’t had any issues. However, I just did my first ride using my newly purchased single sided Favero Assioma’s as the power source, and despite having Powermatch on, there were enormous fluctuations in power numbers, and despite having done an FTP test yesterday without the power meter, today’s workout just felt way too easy. Can anyone advise me on what to do?
Here’s the link to the workout:
The big spikes are from starting and stopping from adjusting my saddle.
Thanks all!
Your TR account is “Private” so we can’t see your workout. But a couple of quick guesses based on your comments.
- The Wahoo Snap was lying to you in ERG mode, with the “Enable Power Smoothing in ERG Mode” option turned on.
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Check out the video to see that the super flat and stable lines are fake and not what real power looks like.
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You need to get used to the bumps you see from your new pedal power meter, they are reality. This is the result of you using PowerMatch, which is good, but you are used to fake power graphs that are unnaturally smoothed by Wahoo and that terrible setting.
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If I understand right, you performed your FTP test based on the trainer power?
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If so, you are apparently swapping to the pedals for power data now, and assuming that the pedals and trainer “match” in power data.
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Sadly, it is more common for power data between a trainer and power meter to differ than it is for them to match. There are many, many threads in the group about these discrepancies. So, unless you have actually compared data from both together, NEVER assume they match, because they probably don’t.
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What this really means is that you can’t really use the FTP you learned based on the trainer power with the power data from the pedals. The experience you share indicates a likely split between the data from each device.
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Ultimately, the best option is to repeat the testing with the pedal power meter as your data source (via PowerMatch on). Short of that, you need to ride with a device paired to both meter, ride around the power you have for your current FTP based on the trainer, and see what the pedals show for that same power. You MAY be able to see the delta between them, and just use the power of the pedals at that time, as you “new FTP”. But, you are still best to repeat the test with the pedals.
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Chad, thank you so much for your super quick reply! I just changed my account settings, so you should be able to see the workout now.
I have been using power smoothing, and I wasn’t expecting anywhere near a smooth line, I was just surprised at the kinds of fluctuations that I was seeing, especially in comparison to seeing other people’s data. I have disabled power smoothing now, and from what I’ve heard in the “Guide to Erg Mode” from Ask a Cycling Coach 281, I will focus on steady cadence. We’ll see where that leaves me tomorrow.
My most recent FTP test was set based on trainer power. Wasn’t planning on taking another FTP test so soon after my last one, but it looks like I’m going to have to. I’ll prepare for the suffering tomorrow morning haha.
Again, thanks so much for all of your help!
Looking at your Baxter with the power meter pedals, there is some really big variation. We tend to see more variation when using power meter pedals, compared to any source that comes further down the drivetrain path, but I will say that your current max/min range on the graph looks suspect.
I have no experience with the Favero, but make sure you have them installed and calibrated (zero offset) per manufacturer instructions. Aside from that, focusing on your cadence and trying to be extra steady is a good start. I hate the Wahoo setting, because I think it hides bad form and allows people to be sloppy and not see the actual results.
That isn’t black and white, but I see more problems from people using Wahoo ERG smoothing than I think we see benefits. Not really helpful now, but something that really bugs me about Wahoo and using that as a default setting.
Aside from that, you can possibly skip a ramp test with the hack I mentioned. But as usual, it is recommended to redo your FTP testing anytime you change power data measuring devices.
Good luck and hope your training and testing go well 
Not really related to @CliffVT 's problem but does power smoothing in the trainer impact power match? As in, is the power the trainer says you are doing used as input of the power matching algorithm?
Good question, and AFAIK, the power smoothing in TR only affects the 3/4-digit numeric display you see in the live “power” field. It doesn’t affect the actual data captured in the ride file, not the power match calcs or used in the power info or the yellow line graph. The smoothing is just there to keep the numbers from bouncing too much, and tries to show a more stable average data.
I meant the power smoothing done in the trainer (erg mode power smoothing as it’s called in the wahoo app) which impacts what the trainer broadcasts out and completely independent of the receiving end.
Ahhh, ok. That I don’t know.
I think I’ve fixed my issue!
Alright, so first thing this morning, I completed a ramp test, and experienced the same large fluctuations, as well as an enormous difference in FTP from my previous (265-427) although with power smoothing turned off in the wahoo app did make the jumps somewhat less extreme. Here’s the link to the workout.
However, after I completed my ramp test, I opened my wahoo app, and it finally picked up my power meter. I then went back into the TR app, set my power meter to cadence only, and then opened up Petit, and while I haven’t completed it due to time constraints, my power variation looks good now! Here’s the link to the partially completed workout.
After my class ends, I will re-do the ramp test, and hopefully I’ll get a more accurate readout.
Thanks for all of your help!
OK, this latest post raises more questions for me than it answers.
- Are you wanting to use the power meter pedals for power meter data inside and outside?
- I ask because the info below shows that you would be using the trainer for inside, and the pedals for outside. Maybe you want that?
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I am guessing you have the Assioma Uno pedals?
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If so, did you use the Favero app to “double” the power data?
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I ask because you mention the massive difference between your FTP tests
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This is huge and leads me to believe you turned on the doubling feature, which I am pretty sure you do NOT want to have turned on. This may well be inflating the power data to unrealistic degrees. I am no expert on the Faveros, but have seen this issue mentioned more than once, so we need to make sure what you have set at the moment.
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Your “fix” essentially ended up turning off the ERG smoothing for the Snap, so you are seeing more realistic power graphing from the trainer. But setting the power meter to cadence only essentially kills it from your power data info. I am guessing that you really want the power meter in use, so you have comparable data inside and outside, but maybe that’s not what you want?
Hm. I guess I was wrong. I do want to use my power meter as the power source, so that I can train using the same numbers both inside and outside.
I am guessing you have the Assioma Uno pedals?
If so, did you use the Favero app to “double” the power data?
Yes, I have selected the “double power” function, I was under the assumption that this was what I was supposed to do since it’s a single-sided power meter, I’ll turn this off, and give it a go.
I also now see that I haven’t actually connected my kickr to my power meter through the Wahoo app, because for some reason, this option is only available for iOS…
I’ll continue to play around with settings, to try and see if I can get anything to improve. Thanks for your help.
Again, I apologize, since I’m still fairly new to the platform, and using all of these devices.
I was wrong about doubling, sorry @mcneese.chad @CliffVT
You don’t need to pair the trainer to the power meter. (The trainer has its own version of power match but better to use the one from trainer road that built into the software)