Anyone using a PM on their trail bike? I have a Quarq on the XC bike but just got a new Stumpy Evo and I am wondering if its worth the $ to add a PM to it.
@smlring what do you do with the info about imbalances? Do you do specific training to address the imbalances? I bought a single sided meter as I figured I only care about total power I can produce for a given effort at a particular point in my training. What is the utility of knowing contribution by each leg? How have you incorporated that knowledge into training?
Is that a calibration, or a zero offset? You clearly have the free time and budget to do this, but is your argument also that “training without a power meter > not calbrating your power meter every 6 weeks”?
Oh, they have done great work on establishing all the ways power meters can mislead you. DCRainmaker wrote an article a few years ago that does a much better job of addressing all the ways power meters can mislead you than my earlier comment could hope to. Not surprisingly, from a power meter accuracy standpoint single-sided power meters force a loss of accuracy that might equal the loss from a dirty drive train.
But… as DCRainmaker also likes to point out,
I’ve also noted that training with a power meter that’s a few percent variable is definitely better than no power meter at all. If you can afford a full power or dual-sided power meter – great! But, if you can’t, or if this is perhaps for a bike that having perfection in your numbers isn’t as important, then that makes total sense.
For doing research on physiology or sports performance, a single-sided power meter would need to work extra hard to generate findings with any confidence. For useful data to train on… the standard is much lower.
As a last note, your edit did not “fix” anything. It just ignored the point that our physiology day-to-day changes, so even if you have complete confidence in the number, the window it provides into your physiology and capability is imperfect and ever-changing.
If you’re not training or racing on it then probably falls into the “nice to have” but not needed category. Once you have power on your bikes it can feel odd/off to not have it, even for nothing else other than curiosity sake. So for a trail bike I’d probably pass unless I have money to burn.
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Did you confirm that a single sided powermeter fits the Epic Evo?
In the market for a budget powermeter for that bike myself.
With all due respect, you’re being very confrontational for someone who said they didn’t want to be confrontational.
I think it’s fair to say you prefer dual-sided PM’s for an added layer of data, I don’t think it’s at all fair to suggest that anyone who chooses single-sided has made a poor, or incorrect decision. It’s certainly not fair to question people’s knowledge of their gear and training because they’ve made an alternative choice to you.
For example, questioning JSTootel is crazy, he’s an elite level mtber, leg balance is almost worthless as a metric on the single track (imo)
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You could say the same about any outside data.
Unless you’re in a controlled environment I think worrying about erroneous data at that level minutiae is missing the forest for the trees.
Who’s to say you hadn’t gained weight, had a different wind, air pressure, humidity, temperature, tyres.
Since it is an expert and SRAM I would need to take the crank off and send it to 4iiii as they don’t have any ready made currently. I don’t have a problem with this as the turnaround good and less amount of $$ as well.
A single-sided power meter does not give you the full picture. A complete dual power meter also does not give you a full picture. So, for an incremental increase in price, you get an incrementally fuller picture. Recognizing that you are always dealing with an incomplete picture is an important step in making a reasonable decision for your circumstances about what (if any) power meter to buy.
Mountain biking is even worse, because more of the effort and strain occurs outside the drivetrain, meaning that the relative inaccuracy of a single-sided power meter is also a smaller percentage of the whole.
If someone told you, “believing that single sided power meters are bad is fine. Just do not try to convince others,” how would you react? You have no authority to tell anyone what power meters they can and can’t recommend, and you should stop pretending you do.
Anyway, I’ll say “thanks” to @Jason_Kennedy for his video on the Power2max, which is the whole reason I was looking at this thread today. I’m still trying to decide if I want to add power to my mountain bike, and it’s a valuable data point about what I had assumed to be the durability of a spider-based PM vs. a pedal-based PM. If I need to consider the PM on my MTB to be somewhat disposable, then maybe going with a cheaper single-sided pedal option is smarter.
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I don’t know why it matters if someone wants single vs double vs spider. To each there own and it is your money to spend as you see fit.
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perhaps it’s your bedside manner.
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I have a Cinch on my trail bike (I rarely ride my XC bike, which has the 4iiii). Besides that being my favorite PM (and just quit working), I don’t think it is worth having unless you are doing something with the data. For a while I was doing intervals on that bike so I found it useful. I don’t really do that anymore, so I am not sure if it is worth it. I am going to try and repair it for fun (they are no longer supported, shame) but I don’t see a reason to put power back on that bike.
I just feel like an addict trying to quit whatever their drug of choice is. I look at my data…and no power. And I freak out a little. But am I missing anything? I don’t think so.
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dern, I didn’t realize that. I have a cinch as well. The original that I put on the bike failed and they sent me a replacement last year that I’m still using. Hopefully it’s just a product consolidation thing and not a ticking time bomb.
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I think they have a small stockpile for warranty stuff. But I didn’t have a receipt for mine (the I am the original owner) so I was SOL. I wish they would bring it back. I like the Cinch system (and also used a Cinch on my Cannondale Si cranks as well).
Right!
I was thinking of the clearance!
Thought there was a measurement between the crank arm and the seat stays that were critical?
I agree I don’t need it. My neurosis would like my outdoor rides to figure into AT though so I thought it would be nice. I feel like Jonathan would understand.
Yes I need to measure it and see if I decide to actually get one. Still on the fence whether or not I will actually get one as I am thinking my garmin cadence/speed sensor 2’s will work just fine on the few rides I did already.
Honestly, if you aren’t racing, or aren’t that fussed on overall TSS, it’s not worth it for a fun bike for hooning about on the trails.
Single sided, or whatever, I do think becomes incredibly valuable as a pacing tool for long races, or anywhere you need to set yourself some limits. Or for monitoring fatigue/overall load being added in from supplementary riding (outside of/additional to your TR plan).
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That’s what I’m running - Epic Evo, Race Face Next SL with Stages Left side
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yeah I agree just more of a fun bike for me to zone out. I don’t really even follow any TR or plans at this point either so I hardly ever look at TSS. I am just shooting for 8 hours weekly of riding and doing most of it outside as well if I can. I am sure down the line I will get one
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