I agree with you, and myself 
I give my athletes intermittent work all the time, just not to improve vo2max. I like to assign those intervals more based on motor unit recruitment, buffering, neural, contractile, and specific race needs.
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I hear ya. Iâm actually liking the turn the discussion has taken since I like and seem to perform the longer hard start intervals better. And the difference between the two that @empiricalcycling has mentioned makes a lot of sense in my mind and will be useful in the future. Prior to this discussion I never heard anyone actually discuss what the differences are, just which they thought was better.
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As I just mentioned in that thread about the podcast in particular, I think that itâs important to look under the hood of vo2max improvements. Itâs what all the last few podcasts have been about. If anyoneâs happy with their improvements doing 30/15s, or whatever else, thatâs alright.
But the popularity of the 2020 Ronnestad study always made me cringe knowing it was on a shaky foundation, and I felt bad that most folks didnât seem to understand that, or have better information when making training decisions. It showed those 30/15s are better compared to those 5min intervals at that time of year for those athletes, but not all continuous intervals, which is how the discussion in the study seemed to frame it, and definitely how itâs usually been interpreted in discussion here in the trenches.
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Actually 40/20 is where itâs at. 30/15âŚnot so much. 
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I like to assign [intermittent] intervals more based on motor unit recruitmentâŚ
As an n=1, I find the high RMP 30/15 et al workouts really feel like my entire leg-glute-hip chain is delivering/developing âconnectiveâ power, much more so than slogging out a quad-busting 5min interval.
Apart from that, I do think Coach Chadâs use of intermittent intervals as an entry/build-up to longer work is reasonable. So they might not be the most effect workout, but probably very effective in getting people to actually do VO2max work.
Iâm yet to listen
I remember doing a âWTFâ when I read it after seeing the power at which the 5-minute intervals were performed at. So thanks for illuminating that, but mostly thanks for providing a great deal of insight and context around the preload and how cadence can achieve a greater amount. To me thatâs the takeaway.
Feel free to answer or not (youâve already been insanely generous with your information), given that %HRmax and absolute power are not super useful metrics when evaluating whether or not weâre truly working at vO2max, is breathing or respiration rate the best indicator? Also, what happens to our vO2max interval(s) if we go too hard and end up anaerobic?
For the first question, effort and breathing are my go-to for figuring out if youâre doing it right. For the latter, weâll put that in the listener Qs episode next since Iâm sure a lot of folks are wondering that. It dovetails nicely with another question we got.
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For those of you that have done a Polarized block, how long was it and what type of training did you move to next? Back to Sweet Spot? Something else?
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Only just started a polarized approach and really enjoying the workout structure. For me after I finish my 12 week block of mostly Z1 or Z3 (3 Zone Model) I plan to do 4 weeks of SSB before jumping back into another polarized block with different Vo2 workout progressions. Similar to your thinking I am unsure where to go and what to do next? Could you just keep retesting and repeat the cycle?
My 2 hard workouts a week looked like this;
Block 1 (3 weeks) = 4x6mins @106% + 2x30/15s (13reps) @130%
Block 2 (3 weeks) = 4x7mins @106% + 3x30/15s (13reps) @130%
Block 3 (3 weeks) = 4x8mins @106% + 4x30/15s (13reps) @130%
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Me again. I went into SS. I was going to do a Threshold block but after the dismal Ramp rest I thought Iâd better beef up mah muscâlar endurance first. Seems that was a premmie decision as I just crushed a TTE test.
My answer: Threshold training.
Suggestion: train what you would have been racing. 
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For us here racing seems to return again, however, without racing I would have continued building my engine. Racing brings you forward - there is no way to replicate this in training - but we can use the current situation to lift us to a new performance level.
Changing the stimulus keeps training varied and may be beneficial from a physiological standpoint. A tempo/SST block seems the obvious choice following a pol block. Pure endurance blocks (which really overload the system), tempo/SST blocks, threshold blocks, pol blocks, pure HIT blocks. Assemble your own playlist from this. Experiment. Make use of the current situation and learn about your n=1.
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Sorry for not reading the whole thread.
Was this study already discussed here?
I see a major gaff right at the beginning of the article. Polarized and 80/20 are different - similar but different. Seiler doesnât say that athletes spent 20% of their time at high intensity. Itâs 20% of sessions. 80/20 comes from Alex Hutchinsonâs running book. Under 80/20 you count sweet spot in the 20% whereas Seiler would suggest staying out of the middle zone.
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So what happens if someone âskipsâ high intensity training (over FTP, z5/z6 what ever) because there is no racing? What happens if i just continue âbuilding the engineâ. Should i worry about my anaerobic capacity? Itâs kinda weird situation because this year i am not going to race and races have always been part of my training (because of those short efforts; sprinting, full gas 1-2min etc.) and now iâm not doing it. Should i still do it or wait till next yearâŚ
For me âengineâ comprises every physiological zone. Building the engine touches all of them, not necessarily at the same time. I just donât believe in avoiding Certain zones. Same with food, a balanced diet is my favourite, no matter what some podcast guru says eloquently
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Thanks for sharing this @DarthShivious I have modelled some of my sessions off of these progressions.
I have myself penciled in for a Polarized training block in about 8 weeks time. The block will go for about 6 weeks (including a rest week) and that should put me at a bit of a peak leading into Summer holidays down the coast where I wonât be racing, but I will be riding with some fast bunches out on the road for a few weeks.
Iâve used workout creator to come up with a few sessions like these below:
I have ran the numbers on my 6 x sessions for the weeks and I should be around the 85% Z1, 5% Z2 and 10% Z3 mark for the weeks to make it more of a Polarized approach. The preceding four week block (including a rest week) is a Sweet Spot block so I am looking forward to mixing the training up and building for the coastal rides.
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Whatâs the 118 / 105 etc in the workouts? They are also 2:00:00 long - which makes me thinks is going to blend into a workout with two priorities - vo2 and endurance
Hey @kiwiscott. The numbers are referring to the nominal FTP output eg. 115% FTP, 105% FTP. Iâve since done a bit of learning about VO2 intervals through reading some papers and listening to Kolie Mooreâs podcast series on VO2 intervals and adaptations (well worth it if you have the time! 8hrs of solid info in that series!) and do the VO2 efforts off ERG mode and on resistance mode - hard and fast starts at high cadence and then settle into a pace I can hold with high cadence and monitor HR.
Yes, at the end of the VO2 efforts I add in an Endurance block. Although lately as I have gotten stronger I have increased them to Tempo (Medio - between 2mmol and 3mmol of lactate).
I do however have designated Z2 days where I ride 3hrs fasted and stay below the Z2 threshold to increase MCT1 etc. Those days are purely just Z2 stuff.
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This happens when you do high vol POL. If youâre doing 15hrs/wk for example, you get 3hrs of VO2 (following the 80/20 rule). Thatâll probably be split into two 1.5hr sessions.
Thatâs one thing I discovered doing POL this year, those hard days are HARD. You do a lot of Z2 work just to recover from the VO2 days!
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