The 3±hour trainer riders on Saturdays look absolutely brutal.
If you look closely, I built this in the calendar in November, after I (hopefully) make it all the way through the mid volume plan that Plan Builder laid out. I might give it a go during off season.
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Actually I’m thinking about designing a (kinda) POL based plan with 2 HIT a week and your post totally gives me some idea.
Still reluctant to do more than 1 HIT in a week but I guess if you never try, you’ll never know.
Btw, with 2 HIT a week and the rest is easy ride, is it gonna be a pyramidal type of plan?
Have a think about 3 HIT over 2 weeks. It’s kinda what I naturally want to do. So one week I do one hard session and then two the next.
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Polarised Training doesn’t have to be 80-20 or 80-5-15 but I’ve transposed my Excel Polarised spreadsheet into google sheets and set it up as 80-5-15 for a four week block as an example for anyone interested.
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In the past I thought you did a lot of long sweet spot, correct? If yes what zone would you assign those in the 3 zone model?
Correct regarding the long SST normally 90 - 92% of FTP, I don’t really use the three zone system while training pyramidal and doing a lot of SST & Threshold.
Interesting question, given my HR response stress on the body I think I could be justified in counting tempo at 80% as Z1, my LTP in Xert is 82% of FTP not sure how that relates to the Z1 upper limit.
I would probably have put those 90 - 92% FTP SST intervals as Z2
Edit: Given how I respond to Threshold training I could convince myself to count 95%+ as Z3, I am not that bothered if that is not strictly true, its near enough and there is no need to nail everything down to some numbers someone made up even if it is through analysis. It high intensity for me.
From what I’ve read, POL Z1 is below 80% FTP and Z3 is VO2Max (so generally 105-130% FTP depending on how long or short the intervals are, respectively). That puts tempo and sweet spot in Z2.
Here is a 4 week block from a Summer when I was coached using a POL TID. Just the break down of sessions by POL zone, not the actual sessions, feel it would be wrong to share that and it is individually based anyway, on a feedback loop. People were asking on the Seiler thread but I did not want to side track that thread, it fits better here.
The blank days were either 45 or 60 minute recovery sessions ~50% of FTP there was one day off in this 4 week block day 22.
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6 days workout seems though! Will need some considerable amount of rest just like the HV plan, I guess.
I’ve read your detailed workout on the Seiler thread and just want to ask how about your RPE or your leg sensation on those days? What did you do when the fatigue’s catch up in the middle of the week, let’s say maybe in 18th
Here’s my first cut at a “medium maturity” rider plan using the VO2 progressions from Short Power Build Mid Volume. Not sure if the reduced amplitude billats workouts are the right progression to use in a polarized plan focusing on short power. Constructive criticism welcomed!
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Honestly it was nothing like the fatigue of a TR HV plan or MV for that matter, it was surprising easy to keep to the POL scheduled workouts. I would not be able to complete a TR HV plan while holding down a job, if I just focused on training and resting and no family life I might be able too. I did Short Power Build MV earlier in the session prior to POL and there are lots of comments about sore legs during that (and a fair few sessions I only got through by the skin of my teeth.)
When I did SPB MV I was doing long rides most weekends and it came out roughly the same TSS per week as shown in my POL block. POL was much easier.
RE: 6 days. It was actually 21 days straight, as I noted…
5, 11, 15 were active recovery days. Just checked they were 45 minutes 50% of FTP (no 60 minute recovery sessions in this 4 weeks.)
I left them blank because they weren’t really considered training to elect performance. Put them in blue in the clip below. Oh, and there was one recovery day denoted as day 22 (I edit my original post to correct that I didn’t spot that originally.)
Interestingly (or maybe not) the only session I couldn’t complete to prescription was the Z3 session, day 23, that came after a rest day i.e day totally off. Not sure if it was anything to do with being the first rest day in nearly a month.
Here are my post session notes for the Z3 on day 23.
“Could only manage the first two VO2Max intervals, tried to complete the other four but 50 - 60 seconds in legs came to a halt and couldn’t breathe so brief back pedals and continued when I could. A bit disappointed, was strangely looking forward to this session. Put in 4x 15s bursts in during the last hour. The whole session seemed laboured for some reason (I never seem to do well off a complete rest day) Still 14M of VO2max better than none?”
Probably also worth noting the day before I started the block shown it was a 432 TSS day, one of my A events the Dartmoor Classic Grande 107 miles, 10,500ft climbing. So didn’t start the block fresh, I was surprised the first day working with my coach to get a session of an hour fasted Z1 and the following day 30/30s Z3, but I was told to skip them if tired. I might have done if it had not been new coach day. Anyway the week was fine and didn’t even feel the need for the first active recovery day on day 5.
I left comments of every session and I can not find a single one that mentions sore legs, the sessions I struggled with and still do are hard start VO2s as the one I commented on above.
All my sessions were in the morning and I do remember having sore legs late in the evening after long VO2s like 6x 5 minute but by the next morning they were fine and the Z1 session very easy 60 - 70%.
For me its not as hard as doing long Threshold intervals or back to back to back high-end SST intervals, they start to get hard muscularly after a few days.
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I would do something like that if training for CX, a Crit or punchy MTB event.
Personally I think Bluebell+1 is a bit of a pointless session, I’d modify it to 30s recoveries, but maybe that’s just me.
Not sure there is a right or wrong answer, you know how you respond to various sessions. I’d be surprised if you need those ‘recovery weeks.’ You could probably add a single Z3 in those weeks, see how you feel when you get there. Not sure if your Z3 sessions are a bit too similar, it has been a very long time since I did something like Whiteface and I’ve never done any of those sessions in the second block (3rd session of each week).
I am crap at them but respond well to the long steady state VO2s so I’m bias to sessions like…
2 sets of 4x 3 minute
2 sets of 3x 4 minutes
6x 5 minutes
5x 6 minutes
4x 7 minutes
So personally I’d put some of these in a four week block at some point, but again maybe that’s just me.
Anyway just some thoughts, you can over think these things, try it and see, especially if you have an opportunity to experiment.
Loving the traffic light colours on your calendar. I’m doing the same using Google calendar and its so easy to just glance at it to check you’re on track.
I don’t set a particular day for my intensity, just wait for a good opportunity like a friend being able to join in or a race training session.
It’s the simplicity of the polarized model that I love. Someone on here mentioned putting the ride into a red, yellow or green bucket. Went out for a hill session with a mate yesterday. Had intended to ride at threshold but instead we smashed them at VO2max. ‘This ride is firmly going in the red bucket’ I exclaimed!
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Thanks for sharing. Out of curiosity, I noticed there were some Z2 workouts sprinkled in. I thought the point of polarized training was to avoid spending time in Z2 and either stay in Z1 (most of the time) or in Z3 (infrequently). Can you clarify the purpose of these sessions?
Yes and no. You just spend very, very little in Z2 (or none at all, which is never going to happen in reality.) It has become a bit of a misconception and people often mix POL up with exclusively being 80:20 training, which is not the case ( I think I did that recently, or a least inadvertently made a comment that would have supported the belief that POL=80:20 when I didn’t mean too.)
When I originally heard about the concept of POL a common distribution discussed in the three Zone system was 80:20 and 80:5:15
But these weren’t the only distributions, there is also 90:10, 95:5 which happens to be where my running falls
or even 85-5-10 but for some reason, maybe because a few popular books and book titles people seem to have gravitated to 80:20 being ‘the one’
I picture it like a distorted or mis-shaped egg timer, with the bottom half 70 - 90% the volume and the top 10 - 30%, but the reality is there is that thin bit in the middle (Z2) where the sand trickles through.
Interestingly if you tip the egg timer upside down you get inverse polarised, not that I have ever heard of anyone training like that.
Mainly muscular endurance, ‘lactate shuttling’ and reduction in VLamax.
Ref: Polarised Cycling Training: A Detailed Guide — High North Performance
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While you are at it: when you say Zone 2 (out of 3), were these workouts in Zone 4 (out of 7), i. e. sweet spot-to-threshold or tempo, Zone 3 (out of 7)? The description makes it seem you are talking about sweet spot and over/unders.
Good question, in recent times there seems to be a growing number of people putting LT1 a bit higher than I originally understood it to be, for me I estimate it to be ~82% FTP so anything < 80% for me I think it would be safe to call Z1 POL. If you had asked me this question 2 years I would have probably said about 78%
Anyway, in regards to 7 zones…
One was muscular endurance middle to top of Z3 - ~85 - 88% FTP
The other was low Z4 ish 90 - 95% FTP
Heart rate wise they ended up both being on the cross-over Z3 and Z4 especially the muscular endurance session where the HR was 50-50 in Z3 and Z4.
Hope that makes sense.
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Was Tim Cusick the coach you worked with? That is the second time I have seen his name mentioned…and I’ve been contemplating working with a coach for a season to get a bit better grasp of what works for me and how to set up training long term.