This was a topic on TR podcast today. But with it being sunny and nice outside, I’ve been doing my workouts outside whenever I can.
Like noted in the podcast, it’s particularly challenging to hit the numbers right no. I have a pretty good route where I can get about 10-20m of steady effort with few blips. But there’s always a stop sign, small dip, turn…something that can interrupt the interval for a time. And the loop often doesn’t line quite up to the rest period so might take an extra few minutes or 5 or so to get back to the base of the climb and start the next one.
So I’m wondering…how good is “good enough” as far as compliance? Good enough would be enough to be worth even trying to hit the numbers compared to just going out and riding willy nilly.
Garmin gives a compliance number for workouts…I find I’m usually in the 75-85% compliance range.
It’s not much of an issue unless it’s egregious. Like if you have a pretty standard 3x20m ftp workout and your intervals are something like 370/360/365 it’s completely a non issue. Slightly longer breaks in between is also fine, it’s not going to cause any real issues to the work you are doing and if anything is probably good since you should be able to do more quality work than with shorter breaks.
Outside workouts are part of the TR sales pitch and product, but once you’re using, they don’t steer users to do them, as indoors is more effective.
An example ride of mine: a 40 min TT up Falls Creek, I created a TR zone to see compliance. 89% of the interval was above 94% of FTP, so threshold or higher
I also wondered how kit effects the adaptive trainings like say I’m at the tail end of the interval and I come up on a stop sign. So I slow….is that interpreted as “dying” and I get adjusted down? Or is outdoor more forgiving of variation?
I’ve gone completely off-plan the last few weeks to prioritize volume and the nice weather. It’s been a great mental break as well after 6 months of structured training, and I’ve even dropped a few pounds. Would like to ease back into the structured workouts starting next week but am definitely interested in taking as much of these outside as possible.
It’s a good question. I’ve gotten better at nailing my outside workouts, I think, but sometimes the terrain or the traffic have impacts beyond my control.
I did notice a little thing (wondered if they were beta testing) a few weeks back where, when the ride was first loaded, it would say ‘success’ where you normally see the survey response. This was then lost when the survey was answered. It’s stopped happening now which is a shame.
Most of the time I actually focus more on heart rate for zone 2 stuff, so I’m happy if I have a block of blue on my fenix graph at the end. With VO2 and anaerobic stuff I always end up juat going as hard as possible for the time and am happy if all reps match or beat the target power and that the last one is similar to the first. Its easier with the shorter intervals to find terrain that works.
I struggle mostly on the sweetspot and threshold stuff. Finding a safe 20 to 30 minute section on road close to home is a real challenge thus mostly I do this work on the mtb off road. Because of this, I struggle often to maintain a steady power output in these zones, they are often more over-unders because of the varying terrain. So the interval may show a correct average power, but I’d like to know how much that variation affects my response. Is it a normal amount of variation? Or am I just wasting time and a lot of energy?
Personally, if i get my intervals during my commute in and my average power is in zone thats a huge success. I will not stress about hitting targets exactly or even rest periods that much depending on how much time or terrain I have available to me.
Garmin might say my workout compliance score is 50, but I know it’s actually 100.
I assume we are talking road workouts? If you race outside I might argue the “real world” interval is more effective. Not in absolute power but in making you a better outside rider. Hannah had a great point on last week’s podcast about mtb training and how the fastest trail segment doesn’t always mean putting down the most (or consistent) power. It’s about maintaining momentum through turns, over rocks and roots. She even went back to timing segments and accepting there may be dips in power.
I am a big believer in the efficiency and effectiveness of indoor training, especially for busy professionals and those with a family. It’s a great tool to get faster. But if you want to work on being fast outside, you are going to get dips and peaks at times. Riding outside is different…And that’s ok!
It has no effect. As for now at least. When you complete an outside workout TR only has two options, pass or fail. So if you don’t yourself register it as a failed workout you will get 100% compliance no matter what.
I’m not the TR team, but this has been answered before. Don’t bother. There is nothing to be gained for searching up workouts after the facts. If you’re worried about your progression levels in regards to a later workout it’s in my opinion better to spend the time finding a suitable workout when that day comes.
For me the rule of thumb is, the shorter the intervals, the more strict and consistent I’m trying to make them. For anything 10+ minutes, sweetspot, threshold, i wouldn’t worry too much about short easying off, turns, etc. I try to avoid fulp stops, but even those shouldn’t make that much of a difference - if you stop for 30s in a 20min interval, it’s only 2.5% difference. And I wouldn’t worry at all about the time between intervals.
For shorter intervals, less than 5min, I try to not have disruptions.
All my workouts are outside. Some things that helped me:
Pedalling against brakes,
Proactive gear shifting,
Decoupling perception of required effort from all the environmental considerations that would normally encourage higher force output or coasting… unless of course if safety is compromised. (That gobbledegook basically means if a hill is coming, I don’t work any harder, I just let the gradient slow me down. Or if I’m in a headwind, again that doesn’t make it harder; I just take longer. If I’m coming up to an intersection or sharp corner, I pedal against brakes & shift to an easier gear. And not stomping hard on the pedals to get back up to speed.)
Installing a crazy wide spread of gears to facilitate the above,
Also (probably not relevant in this conversation but was part of my journey): decoupling self-worth from average speed, strava segments, & other vanity metrics. And who’s passing me on a basket bike.
One of the coaches who frequents the forum (I’m sorry I’ve forgotten which thread or who it was) said something along the lines of if you coast for a few seconds in the middle of a long interval, you’re probably not ruining the interval. If it’s a minute on, a minute off repeatedly when you’re supposed to be continuous for an hour, then you need to reassess what you’re doing.
In terms of what it means from the AI FTP assessment & coaching side of things, my guess is that its internal “compliance regulator” already sees a lot of this variation on indoor workouts where the athlete is not in erg mode.
To answer your question, we don’t recommend matching an outside ride file unless you’ve actually followed the workout instructions, as this gives the system the wrong data, telling it you completed something you didn’t.
For the example you showed, I would not recommend matching your 30-minute effort to Lola -1 because you did not follow Lola -1. You may be working the same zones, but both efforts are inherently different.
This can also create an issue of getting a higher Progression Level credit than you’re ready for on your Threshold zone, and can translate to failing future scheduled TR Workouts.
All that said, there is also no need to match your 30-minute effort, as the system will take the effort into account and recommend any needed adjustments to your training.
Sounds like you have a nice hill you can perform intervals on! So this is great. Having longer rest periods is OK until you’re able to resume your next interval. If you are completing your intervals with quality, then you’re doing it right!
Plus, you can always choose a Workout Alternate that you think may fit best the terrain you’ll be training on.
Just for the sake of consistency I like adapting the level of effort to the terrain when l ride outside. Although you can’t do a structured TR workout this way It’s more fun and more sustainable in the long term.
If TR gives me a threshold or SST workout l try to find the route in my area with longer climbs and my goal is to achieve a similar time in zone than the prescribed workout.
Same for V.O2max/anaerobic workouts but in this case l look for a route with short hills.
I know it’s not ideal but l have tried many times to follow a TR plan and abandoned it bc of the difficulty and stress associated to nail the workout targets outside…in my opinion cycling for us amateurs shouldn’t be a second job!
I wish btw that the TR workout descriptions give the time in zone detailed information. Now l am using intervals for this purpose.
I do find outside workouts provide some “training” that’s less obvious than hitting numbers. Like what it “feels” like to hold a certain effort level across varied terrain. How to resist letting the terrain dictate when you rest. . . e.g. a slight decrease in incline or descent letting your power drop by 1/2 without noticing.
I’ve thought of MTB, since typically those routes have more uninterrupted climbing. But I don’t have power on my trail bike. I’ve been using flats there, so uncertain if it even makes sense. Particularly with how variable the power effort is. . . . like you’re basically at 0 power when you’re defending, but that doesn’t mean you’re not working.
Agreed. The dynamic of maintain consistent power (and effort) outside I think is a big benefit.
I never did trainers before, but I have a real winter now. I almost feel like winter training is when I’m making deposits and when the weather is beautiful like this, it’s time to cache out. And screw the rest lol.
But you build those habits of hitting training goals and it itches in the back of your head.
I’m the opposite. The purpose of those long intervals is to do long, consistent work without any breaks. A 20 minute interval with even 10 seconds of coasting feels a lot different to me than a 20 minute interval with constant, consistent power. For shorter VO2 work outside I don’t pay as much attention to the power target, I just go as hard as I can for that duration.
All my workouts are outside. Some things that helped me:
