One hour and a half is the longest workout for Grand Fondo - Why?

This is where you adapt the TR plan to your own needs. You can get plenty of intensity in a 1.5-2hr “workout”. You aren’t going to need more of an interval workout.

You might need more saddle time though to do well in a long fondo. So add more saddle time. Add another hour of endurance to your workouts. Put all your winter clothes on and get outside for 3-4-5 hours if you can. Put your skis on and go out for some hours if that is an option. Do double days adding in more endurance hours. There is a million ways to skin this cat.

What a great reply by the Big Cat! An honest answer that really talks to what is the best solution, rather than just designing a shortcut because they think its what people will actually do :wink:

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I love Frank, but his “all or nothing” mentality just seems like a mistake to me. I get it, FtFP and all, but who are we, really?

  • Does he really expect that average people will have the freedom and ability to fully follow a plan with no modification? His implication and sometimes direct statement is along the lines of “how serious is your training to you?”.

  • Will our training really derail if we use the TR Alternate and grab a 45-60 min workout as opposed to the 90 min that was scheduled?

  • Is a reasonable compromise workout better than no workout?

He just seems overly idealistic, with no accommodation for real life. Great if you can follow it to the letter, but I seriously doubt that a majority of users can actually stick to plans with near 100% compliance.

ETA: The particular part my comment above is meant to address:

Choosing an alternative workout is a bad training habit not a feature. Creating a feature that is less effective physiologically is going to meet your preferences in the short term and cut into your performance in the long run. There are no shortcuts to endurance training - it is a function of time in the saddle. That is my beef with indoor training platform training plans.

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Have you looked at the TR full distance triathlon base HV plan? Last I looked they took a no compromise approach.

There is also problem with his approch to adding sweet spot work which there is a whole thread on:

I have not. I was specifically responding to Frank’s comment that you linked (re: Alternates).

As to the TR plan, without digging in, I can only imagine that the plan can be modified using the “Alternates” tool just like any other TR plan. As such, that is more able to deal with needs for tweaks than what I see from Frank.

PS, I added the related part of my interest above.

PPS, I am no sports physiologist and am out of my depths if this is aimed at discussing various training modalities. My main reason for commenting was recognition of the differences between what I am calling “The Ideal” vs “The Real”. We all know a plan is great and doing it should work. But how often do we need to adjust to meet the with the realities of life? That was my point.

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FWIW after 2 years of TR, I did a 3 month block of FasCat Sweet Spot Base and versus TR my FTP increased and performance across my entire power curve (from sprints to 5 hour rides) improved. Apparently my physiology responds better to investing more training in zone2 endurance than doing intervals. YMMV.

Yeah, I’m not heading down that road.

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I don’t know why you don’t want more excitment. Save that for next weekend? :-p

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I’m currently in week 8 (so SSB2) of a 6-month MV gran fondo plan (my focus is multi-day endurance events). All going well but one thing is puzzling me.

In SSB1 there were endurance workouts once a week, but in SSB2 they have gone. All workouts are now either SS, threshold or VO2 Max (other than the midweek and rest week workouts but they are such low intensity I can’t see them being productive).

Why would there be no endurance work in a gran fondo plan? Looking ahead there are no more endurance workouts planned (other than those mentioned) till the end on the plan in the summer.

I moved your post to one from this week that already touches on your question.

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Count me in as someone who finds specific z2 training not totally necessary to put in a solid century. I’ve gone directly from doing SSB with 2hr max workouts to around 5hr centuries. Keep in mind this is HV stuff 10-12hrs. But it’s doable

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This has been inferred in other responses but not said explicitly: another way to look at a TR low volume plan is “this is the amount of structure that I am able/willing/want to do in a week”.

It doesn’t mean that is the only riding you could/should/ may want to do to prepare for your event. I’ve done multiple 100+ mile events off of low volume plans and I do longer, less structured, and/or more event specific intensity rides in addition to my key 3 structured rides a week. Those are my intentional disciplined rides I always try to hit, not a hard do-not-exceed rule.

If my bonus volume was affecting my ability to complete my structure then that would either be reflected in my post-ride surveys and I’d get easier variants, or I could just use my judgement to consider that my extra volume is requiring additional rest and back it off some. This goes back to what someone else said earlier, TR is more like an advisor, not your literal coach that you follow blindly.

I’m not really talking about Z2 multi-hour workouts. I get that stuff in commuting & other outside rides. I was thinking more of 1-5 to 2 hour relatively intense endurance to bump up the endurance ratio in my TR career. It just seems weird that is going to be one of my lowest scores when I’m doing a gran fondo plan!

It may be boring to do a high intensity endurance session indoors but I find them useful, being able to concentrate fully on the workout without outdoor distractions.

If there isn’t an answer to this I may just swap out one of the weekend threshold sessions for a suitable endurance one.

The answer is to do what you want to do and fits your schedule. TR has the Weekly Tips in the training plans for the Mid and High volume plans. Look there and you will see a suggested Endurance ride to swap out the typical Sweet Spot one. This has been their go-to option and recommendation for anyone wanting to add the endurance, if they have more time than the usual SS offering.

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I refuse to sit on an indoor trainer any longer than 1.5 hrs.
95% of my workouts are 1hr, 4% under 1hr and 1% 1.5hrs.

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If anyone is feeling endurance is lacking in plans, you can always get on for 4hrs like I’ve done lately lol

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I have set a personal cap of 3 hours for now in this season, but I know that workout well :stuck_out_tongue:

this.

you should definitely ride longer if you are able!

I wish TR would tell people that, or highlight more that this is “time crunched” training. With the huge rise in gravel, it’s great at all to do 1.5-2h rides midweek, but if you can get out for 3-4 on the weekend, even better!

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