On Pocagar aerobic engine and recovery capabilities

My opinion, everybody. But I’m not the authority that should determine that. And I think it should be implemented based off discussions and not one person making a decision. Don’t the riders already have that unit under their seat that records and broadcasts their data. It’s use is supposed to be so viewers can see their data on tv, which in a very few circumstances we see.

I totally disagree with the idea that because someone knows my ftp or CP curve that they have an advantage on a climb.

Wasn’t part of the big deal during Remco’s crash that the UCI was worried about data being broadcast? As in they can’t do it, far as I read it’s for GPS data.

If I know your FTP is X and I’m X+30 why wouldn’t I use that to drop you? Same goes knowing your W/kg, VO2 duration, or whatever other data.

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No, I don’t think so. I think during Strade Bianche and a couple of the other races there was real time data and averages for different stats.

Let alone be immediately doubted

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Because you would drop me anyways. There is no “using the data” to drop me in that scenario.

Now let’s look at the opposite. My ftp is X and yours is X-30. How does knowing that help/hurt you. It doesn’t.

Pogacars trainer mentioned they brought the time loss for the bike change down to 7sec during preparation and absolutely nailed it in the race, possibly beating their best previous efforts.

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When analysing his power data it has been reported over and over that his power meter over-estimates. Lanterne Rouge talked about it several times.

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Whether his power meter overestimates or not is not really important. He’s going up mountains a lot faster than anyone else. His W/kg is obviously massive and way above what we’ve seen for a very long time!

I completely agree. This is the huge shame in all of this. The guy just won the TdF. He’s a young lad. He did really really well.

But because of the bad history of professional cycling there is a huge shadow of doubt cast over any and every exceptional win. It’s like the few previous people who either chose to or were pressured into cheating have spoilt it for everyone else now (Come to think of it isn’t that a common ‘human condition’ behaviour across a lot of society?).

Clearly the doubt in people’s minds is quite understandable for the most part, given how much lying and cheating has been exposed as having taken place in the recent past.

Doesn’t make it any less of a shame though. :frowning:

My tuppence worth:

If we temporarily set aside PEDs, my natural expectation would be that over time, as equipment, nutrition, scientific understanding, training and recovery methods alongside athlete identification and selection at an early age all improve, we ought to see logically a general if gentle trend of improved performances over time.

Mix this in with one in a million exceptional genetics and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to see why someone could do what he did.

My n=1 example of why I believe there can be these one in a million people; back in the mid 1980s we had a lad in our class at school in the UK who was pretty hopeless at most ‘sports’ but he could run. In fact he broke every school record for distances over 800m before he was aged 16, including running a sub 18 minute 5k cross country time over an undulating sandy course. He just had an amazing natural ability, without any coaching, special training or nutritional edge. His body was just perfectly suited to it in terms of height, weight, frame, leg development, aerobic engine etc.

I guess I may be naive and also quite possibly may be guilty of optimism bias but I am choosing to believe Tadej Pogacar is clean until proved otherwise. :grin:

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Personally id rather just believe ppl are clean until proven otherwise because its more fun. As a spectator/observer just enjoy the entertainment value of a youngster putting in a huge effort, which was a big come from behind win. No need to spoil it for myself by imagining there is doping going on

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George Bennett talks about it here. “Primoz did the best time trial he’s ever done numerically… a lot bigger numbers than he pushed in the Vuelta”

(The rest of the podcast if gold!)

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He probably has freak genetics. Cadel Evans had an unusual lung capacity way above normal. Even Froome showed in photos without a shirt that his ribcage is freaky huge. Lots of successful champs are genetic freaks in some way, that’s what puts them above the rest of us.

It’s so hard to know, isn’t it? I wasn’t a bad XC runner as a young lad, and had a semi-organised training programme with the county.

One of my best friends did little exercise other than football training 2x/week. He asked to come out on a 7-8 mile training run one day. By the end, I was working harder than him. Same guy entered a half marathon 5 years ago (so mid 30s at this point) and got round in just over 90 minutes on about 6 weeks’ training. I’m sure we all know people like that.

On the other hand, as I said at the time, to put that much time into a field of that standard… well, it’s unusual. I hope I witnessed a great performance, not the start of another scandal.

But let’s remember innocent until proven guilty.

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Yes, good Podcasts. That’s what I was referring too without naming them. I find it interesting that they didn’t even hint at it being a suspicious performance.

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Also known in the trade as ‘not guilty and don’t do it again’ :wink:

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I suspended my belief in cycling a long time ago and now enjoy it for the spectacle - bit like WWE on wheels (only with many careers ruined by unfair advantages).

Wout VA dropping climbers on climbs…hmmmm

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Think the reason we never saw many young riders win has more to do with road cycling being a ‘traditional sport’. You just weren’t allowed a chance at GC at a young age. Your role was to ride for the team leader, fetch bottles, pull the group in the first 100km when nobody’s watching, and if you’re lucky, be allowed in a break that will be caught before the finish. After a couple of years of ‘showing your worth’, you might get a chance yourself.

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We may find out in 5 years or so once samples are analyzed retrospectively for military grade pharmaceuticals.

I’m not in the game of casting aspersions, but some performances at this year’s TdF were surprising.

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An interesting view expressed by Philippa York in a recent interview with David Walsh in The Times

To me it’s interesting that there are young riders in this Tour fighting for the yellow jersey. In a sport where there is a deep-rooted doping culture, the young guys won’t be able to compete against guys who’ve been doping for seven or eight years.

Could be the rise of the younger genreration is because the race is cleaner than it used to be?

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Here’s what confuses me.

The critics who say certain rides/riders are suspicious are generally the ones also saying that “of course doping still exists in the peloton”.

If that’s the case then a lot of the peloton are still doping and Pogacar was STILL the better rider. You can’t just pick and choose who is clean and who is “suspicious”.

As already alluded to, if cycling is going to progress beyond it’s bad history, so much of that needs to come from the fans who should drop this “guilty until proven innocent” mentality.

With the great advances in sport science, medicine and nutrition even in the last decade, I’m willing to accept that riders now could perform as well as doping athletes of the past, at least until a doping test proves otherwise.

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