It looked like a very well-timed shoulder check to me. Sure, “things happen,” but they also happen more frequently when you initiate contact.
He absolutely deserves the suspension for Littleton.
I am a little befuddled at the whole Legion thing. 3 or so years ago when they were first starting, I liked their story, I liked their message, and I like the vision that they were portraying. I really wanted them to succeed as a team and hoped they could grow the sport and increase professionalism (which is something they harped on) across the board. I was even ready to buy a Legion sweatshirt, and as a cheapskate I never buy anyone’s overpriced merch (I guess I was lucky in hindsight that they were out of my size when I was looking).
But their execution over the last couple of years has been horrible. They have lost all admiration that I had for them. Seems it was all talk and no show, like a smooth talking used car dealer. It is a shame really.
The word you were looking for was “grift”
I agree with everything you said and it echoes my feelings of this whole thing.
Just so we’re all on the same page - the video you posted is footage from a race (2019 amateur nats maybe?) from several years ago. The incident he was recently suspended for is totally separate race incident. I’m not super informed on it - this video was the first one that came up when I searched for the Littleton incident
That video Jeff (Norcal) posted is actually from 2018 amateur nats (the first year Justin won), pre-Legion
That is fracking ridiculous. Legion has no right to drive a train around a course without anyone on their wheel. It’s a bike race and every racer has an equal shot at any position.
Justin Williams is just a big bully. He can’t beat the guy honestly so he crashes him into the curb.
His suspension should have been longer.
Thanks, couldn’t remember for sure when that one took place but knew it was old footage. Just felt it wasn’t clear in the context of this thread how old that was
(Notwithstanding the whataboutism) Did you see the video of the Littleton race? I just watched it on Velonews. Nuts.
I think this sums up my feelings completely. Well said.
Judge this on its merits and don’t compare to other events. Judge those as well, by all means
saying it was done by someone else in a different event isn’t really saying anything about whether this specific incident was right or wrong
Nobody else’s actions absolve Williams from being an a-hole who thinks he’s a big hot shot but would get shot out the back of the pro peloton in a heartbeat.
Regarding Philipson and WVA - yes, Philipson is a bit wild. In that particular incident the barriers narrowed on Wout as Philipson came in. The course design was crap. And there was no contact just, good old fashioned shutting the door on another rider combined with bad course design (they were sprinting through an S-turn).
And I’ve never seen a rider in the world tour intentionally try to run another rider off the road at a random corner during the race. (I’m not saying it hasn’t happened.)
That was slow speed posturing. No contact, a lot of conversation and nobody run off the road.
I’m not saying that Phillipsen is a saint but I don’t know why are you trying to defend Williams with these comparisons?
You think Williams shouldn’t have been suspended?
Legion is basically the Cobra Kai (80s version) of Crit Racing.
I have no idea what you are talking about. Philipsen seems to have a lot of commentary thrown his way. Kendall Ryan deserved her DQ if it’s the event I’m thinking about. Williams riding someone off the course and crashing them out is way over the top and not even close to a deviation or any situation above that you are comparing.
I could care less about Philipsen.
I saw why Williams got suspended. I’ve seen him belittle people on Instagram for no good reason. I have a low opinion of him watching this stuff over and over.
This topic was started because Williams went full court press on Norcal Cycling after an honest evaluation of their tactics. The criticism wasn’t even harsh.
I think the problem with the whataboutism and saying rider X did this and wasn’t punished or rider Y did similar is that they are different teams/people, where as Williams (and by extension Legion) have history of repeated warnings/punishments.
Also I wonder if being under different ruling organisations (Uci and various crit leagues) has any bearing on it?
I’m not American nor a crit racer so not got a horse in the race just someone who enjoys watching bike racing.
I still think you’re trying to have a separate discussion here. If you want to claim that the rules are being applied in a selective or even racist manner be my guest, but you should try to find examples from the same sanctioning body and same types of events
Saying that the USAC suspending a crit racer while the UCI did not suspend a world tour road racer means that things aren’t being fairly applied is not a logical conclusion IMO
I’m not sure that’s what you’re trying to prove though.
If your point is that this is a inherently dangerous and aggressive sport and that actions like what Williams did in the video above are acceptable…well on that we definitely disagree
Whether these things happen all the time or this was a one off by Williams I’m of the opinion that removing this behavior is vital
As the quote from Goldfinger goes: 'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action '.