New to trainerroad (nearly at 2 month in) so just wondering if the effects I am noticing is to be expected with an AI based training software.
Bit of background, Ive being cycling a few years, mainly indoors on Zwift freerides, races, tt’s etc with occasional duathlons, social rides & sportives outdoors. 38 year old, 62kg and came into Trainerroad with an FTP (Zwift ramp test based) of 3.6w/kg (223W) and a final ride before TR of 49mins @ 206W average (to highlight the concern below) on the 23rd of Feb which didn’t feel all out.
Since starting TR, ive followed the training plan to the letter, accepting adaptions where presented (Afterall, were paying for this insight) with the only changes being occasional shifts in dates of workouts +/- a day.
Ive felt over the past few weeks significantly weaker on the bike to the point that yesterday I failed to manage a 2x20 SST, having to pause twice in the second effort. First was 190W & no problem, 5min rest & second at 205W. Had to lower 10% & still pause two times to reach the end.
If such changes are expected then I’m OK with that for the greater good in the long run, but at the moment it feels I’m haemorrhaging wattage & I cant explain why which is concerning.
For the 4 weeks prior to joining TR, what was your weekly TSS and hours? Same for the first 4 weeks of TrainerRoad. And what TR plan / volume are you on? Any additional rides outside TR plan?
Just by reading your post, I’m guessing you’re fatigued and there has been an increase in weekly TSS that your body is having a hard time keeping up with currently.
The first 2 things I’d consider is fueling and stress/fatigue build up. Do you feel like you are well fueled going into the workouts? If so, how about fatigue/stress (including factors like sleep and work outside of cycling)? Are you at the start of a training block or nearing the end and coming up on a rest week? Ideally, you want to get to the last couple workouts in a block carrying quite a bit of fatigue, but still be able to do them. That can be tricky, especially if you are new to structured training and progressive build. It sounds like this isn’t an isolated thing if you have been feeling down for a bit, but also remember that we all have bad weeks/days and it can take a lot of experience to figure out how to avoid them. No system can replace experience and listening to your body.
In my opinion, no. But one of my core mantras is “question everything”, so blind trust isn’t in my DNA. That doesn’t mean the TR system isn’t great, but I personally see it as one of many tools we have to guide/inform our training. Just like we should question a human coach and make sure we understand the “why” as much as the “what”, we should understand and question any system that is helping to direct our training. Same goes for any of the “newfangled” tools that are available like whoop, xert, etc. These tools can provide insight, but should always be questioned and never followed blindly.
The good news is that TR has excellent human support unlike some of the automated tools. If something is not feeling right or you don’t understand why a workout or plan is structured the way it is, jump on the phone/chat and see if they can help explain it.
Infact, you can save a lot of guesswork and share your calendar (if comfortable). To do this, you first need to set it to public: Log In to TrainerRoad
I noticed you had some Zwift races on your TR Calendar. They all seem to be very intense as well – they all have an Intensity Factor of about 1.0, which means they’re all-out efforts.
I’m guessing that those extra rides are taking a toll on your recovery. Structured training is demanding, so trying to fit Zwift races or “extracurricular” intensity days into your plan can make things go off the rails quickly.
I’d recommend backing off of those Zwift races if you’re still aiming to nail your interval sessions each week. If you still want to keep some of those Zwift races in your weekly schedule, though, I’d recommend replacing one of your structured interval workouts for the week with a Zwift race. You should try to cap your intensity days at 3x/week (some athletes even prefer capping it at 2x/week). Any more than that and you risk fatigue/burnout.
I did notice that on your Zwift ride last week, you set an all-time 14-minute power PR!! That’s certainly a good sign of progress to me.
It’s also worth noting that the PR ride fell on a recovery week, so you probably shed a bunch of fatigue that had built up over the previous weeks, allowing you to push harder during that ride to hit the power PR.
Hope this helps! Feel free to let us know if you have any additional questions.
Those short TTs and races on Zwift, as stated by @ZackeryWeimer, can completely derail upcoming intense workouts in your TR plan. I would follow his suggestion of either opting out of Zwift races or using them to replace a workout in the TR plan that’s intended for intensity. Also, carb up if you’re not
I do like to test myself in races etc, mainly TTs where the IF is certainly up that way.
That could be the nail on the head though, where I have chosen mid rather than high volume expecting to then be able to add occasional races in the mix without penalty.
One last thing to check, just in case: are you a very anaerobically oriented athlete?
If yes, it’s possible the ramp test may over-estimate your power. When you’re fresh, what does a 2x20 sweet spot session feel like? After you’re used to intervals of that length, it should likely be very manageable for someone of your fitness - I have nearly the same FTP as you. 2x20 at threshold should feel more challenging. As you do over-unders, you should be able to feel like the overs are not something you could sustain forever. Stuff like that.
I actually am not on TR. You should be able to set your FTP manually, and you also have those post workout surveys. If you completed the workout but it felt horribly strenuous, you really need to indicate that it was all out for the AI to detect that you’re having trouble.
Nothing wrong with that! I’ve hit a lot of PRs in races and group rides myself.
They can be great additions to a training plan, but make sure to balance those types of rides with everything else rather than just adding them on top of your prescribed training stress.
It might also be useful to check out one of our recent feature releases, Red Light Green Light. You can look back on your training history (even pre-TR!) to get an idea of where you may be pushing too hard and accumulating too much stress too quickly. Yellow/Red days that pop up on your TR Calendar can be helpful indicators of when you might want to make a session easier or even turn a planned workout into a recovery spin or a rest day.
Definitely try out capping your intensity days to 2-3x per week, though – I think you’ll find you have more energy in your legs for those harder workouts in your plan!
I’d say this helpful forum made sheet would have this under All Out which is where I’d put this too.
By making those bailout interventions, you’ve not cleared the hurdle, your body won’t get the required adaptations but the stytem has raised the next hurdle.
This illustrates why if TR means for the last response option to mean that the workout was too hard as it was written and you had to drain every gram of glycogen and iota of willpower to finish it, it should be changed to too hard.
I am not on TR, so I don’t see what verbiage accompanies each response option, but a lot of people won’t read the details. To me, all out means that it was not too hard.
I’m under the impression that TR gives you a failure survey if you quit the workout part way. If I’m right, then that’s obviously great, but clearly you can complete the workout not as intended, by reducing the power or by pausing (which the OP did!), and still have the how did the workout you just completed feel survey come up. Again, if so, you need a too hard option.
The options on the survey could certainly do with a description.
To be honest, I was expecting a penalty to be applied automatically due to me stopping twice.
I think the best way for me to describe that workout wasnt so much the intensity, as it wasnt that. HR was around 175, where i can sit at 190 for 20 min no bother when feeling like it.
More so, this wasnt intensity or muscular as my legs felt fine. Not sure how to describe it, I just mentally couldnt be bothered to force myself to do it.
Probably comes down to the fatigue and stress mentioned by others earlier, or a lingering result from a cold/cough i had last week.
I think my expanded survey above works well but just to make sure it’s shared, here is TR’s official article (which shares some of the info TR & I tossed around back in the day)
I’m not sure if you’re doing Zwift races at the beginning, middle or end of a “block”. I would suggest if you want to build your ftp, focus on the plan first and trying to nail the key workouts. Then target certain races at the end of a block or replacing one of your hard days. I get it’s fun to do Zwift races and group rides, end of the day you have to figure out what you want.
Do you want to improve your power by sticking to a plan or do you want to smash a group ride? You can do both, don’t get me wrong but you have to find a balance. Easy days easy and hard days hard, recover and repeat.
The races would almost always be on a day off (mid volume, 5 plan days per week) normally weekly so not really waiting for the start or end of any block.
But yea i think your right.
Think ill try just sticking purely to the plan and up the volume in that before continuing weekly races.
Or if i do, scratch one hard workout off the list before doing so
