You’re the one making unsupported engineering claims here. I’m simply referencing the compatibility guide that shows that Shimano’s default is cross compatibility whenever possible and not making assumptions about their motivations.
Its called, educated guess, using what I know, as an engineer, of how software/hardware work, while also using Shimano own admission of the possibility of backward compatibility by allowing TT shifters to be used on new 12 speed systems. But continue talking about unsupported assumptions.
Second warning.
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Flags are present and I am leaving them for Ivy to handle with her specific process.
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One upping a personal attack with one of your own is not how we do things around here.
Clean it up, NOW and drop the crap immediately.
Really the 54/40 with the 11-34 cassette is killer. You get a shorter gear on the low end without giving up anything on the high end.
And compared to my current ‘climbing’ setup…
Same bottom end, with an extra gear in the ~100"+ range.
Then my crit setup…
Way more bottom end, and the jumps at the top end are still pretty good. The 85->96 jump instead of 87->93 is not the best. The 11-30 cassette solves that giving you an 85->90 jump, while giving you same bottom end and better top end.
Seems good man.
Okay, I deleted my post this morning as I finally had time to smash on this!
Here is my analysis of current relevant Shimano systems (IMO)
11-spd Di2 Hotsheet.pdf (222.4 KB)
11-spd Mech Hotsheet.pdf (222.6 KB)
12-spd Hotsheet.pdf (219.6 KB)
I programmed mine the same, but switched left & right. Right buttons move the derailleurs to the right, left to the left. Which for me is more intuitive 
That is…a lot of money. Lordy.
Seeing this data and analyzing what Shimano changed/did, the system is not logical or even reasonable for me.
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The system is still not fully wireless (really, one less cable going to the lower junction?)
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They ignored market outcry for gear ratio’s (such as a 10T and 42T on the same cassette)
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The power meter/ crank is a moot point as there are so many other options in the world
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The junction box is in an extremely dangerous place creating huge cost for any accidents
Now one plus side is the new brake system, the biggest complaint I have had about Shimano’s relevant system (excluding MTB) is that the braking system sucks.
That’s my take, not worth it and everyone should grab up R8000 or R9000 product…
LOL, re-reading my post… I totally documented it backwards (and have edited it to be correct now). I did exactly what you described on the bike (button side moved der same direction). I just wrote it down wrong in the flurry of typing 
Great minds 
$815 for a DA rear derailleur!!! $410 for Ultegra!!! Dear lord! I just paid $242 for a 11 speed mechanical Dura Ace RD. No way you’ll be seeing me on electronic for those prices. There is a point of diminishing returns…
And it solves the biggest annoyance with wiring di2, while eliminating a part, and maintaining what some see as an advantage of a larger battery.
That may be something people want for gravel. But who is asking for a 400% cassette on a 2x? If anything people grouse about SRAM going to smaller less efficient cogs to get the same development.
So people have been replacing entire cranksets to get dual sided power which means that Shimano isn’t allowed to address the defect?
The $100 bump isn’t the best. But putting it in the FD doesn’t work because that boxes them out of doing 1x for anything using the new architecture. They can’t put it in the brifters, which may be even higher risk, because they are wireless. So… where would you put it?
If you are running a cable/line through the frame running a small Di2 wire really is not a big deal. The bigger battery is a positive although I hardly ever charge my 9050 system (maybe 3 times a year I feel like)
The trend has been going towards 1x for a while, rather gravel or road. I see a lot of the A local groups going 1x and crit racing going 1x and gravel going 1x.
My personal gravel bike is a 38T wolf with R8000 Shifters, a RX812 RD and a Sram 10-42 XG-1199, I have not found a gravel race it didn’t cover me anywhere on course and with road wheels is almost sufficient for the group rides (this of course is my own experiece)
Single sided arms, power pedals, cranks, hubs… The list goes on, but its a good thing they fixed it, my point in my original post is that’s not a real selling feature for the most part.
“Oh btw we fixed our problem”
I would leave the junction box where they have been for the last few years - the bars, seatpost, frame… anywhere but the RD. This does rely on manufacture cooperation but what major manufacture hasn’t/wont work with them.
In the Bay Area / San Francisco, I see <10% (and it is probably <5%) 1x on gravel bikes, and zero for road bikes.
I use the word trend, not its happened. I am in the midwest, we do not have “real” mountains here only bumps compared to the bay area.
Don’t think I am anti-electronic as I have a few Di2 bikes. I just unfortunately do not see this system as a big upgrade over the previous generation, while in my bubble it does not address what we are seeing here (and yes we are very gravel heavy)
Maybe this is where I need to “chill” for a moment and see if they have a new GRX drop. I am so use to seeing DA and Ultegra being the general go to regardless of what category you are doing (RR, Crit, Cross, Gravel, Adventure).
Good point, I got a little excited and didn’t think oh wait maybe they are going to just make this a road category now.
Maybe you’d save weight with a 1x, depends if mech or di2 (and if mech, you could save weight by replacing your heavier L shifter with one that doesn’t exist that has no internal mech) Less weight in derailleur, save a chainring, add a larger cassette with arguably worse gear spacing for most terrain. I don’t see the popularity of road 1x taking off unless it’s my buddy who moved to Pancake flat Florida and could totally survive with a 53 ring and 11-28 cassette everywhere.
Di2 electronic parts compatibility chart
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?acid=C-562&cid=C-431
Hopefully 12s becomes more backward compatible with 11s by firmware update
It’s ‘a deal’ though. And if you don’t care about it they let you wire it in still so your brifters never go dead.
SRAM has been trying to push it. The pro peloton has asked for special chainrings so they can largely ignore it. Rotor has their 1x13 supposedly, have they actually sold any volume of that? 1x12 might be better, but roadies haven’t been convinced at all.
Shimano and SRAM have almost identical progression charts… Shimano is just using bigger cogs.
If one of their major goals was ‘eliminate the need to wire into the handlebars because SRAM is killing us with it’ that’s a non-option.
Personally I find the whole wired vs wireless thing kind of silly on road bikes especially.
A. How many times are you running wires during ownership of the bike/how much time are you saving over the life of the bike not running wires?
B. Having one battery for everything is nice, no worry about which component might die (with di2 it’s always the FD first which in the worst case scenario still leaves you with a working RD and 9-10 gears in the back to use.
Sure on a full suspension MTB the wireless is nicer since running cables takes longer and cables in the frame could be annoying if you’re taking apart pieces of the frame for repair or bushing service, etc. this is not a problem on single piece frame road bikes
Also don’t get why the new Shifters are wireless with hydro brakes but wired only for Rim brakes, but I guess rim brake guys should be thanking their lucky stars for even getting consideration here