Did you look at the three studies referenced in the tool? It’s not really an approach for weight loss. It’s evidence that eating less than 30 cal per kg of fat free mass, plus whatever you burn exercising, leads to poor endocrine and metabolic health and poor performance. Athletes can appear to be weight stable and still be in a functional weight deficiency. Below the 30/kg ffm threshold:
Reproductive hormones are suppressed
Bone health deteriorates
Metabolic rate adapts downward
Glycogen storage is impaired
Risk of injury and illness is increased
Training adaptations are reduced
So I don’t think this is an “approach” and it’s probably not relevant to a guy that needs to lose 50 pounds, but if you’re an athlete who wants to be healthy and perform at your best, then it’s crucial to meet the 30/kg threshold at a minimum.
I replied earlier in the thread that I think the recommendations are too much, but my thinking has changed since I really dove into the three studies and my weight is stable for the last ~3 weeks even though I’m eating 300-500 calories more than I thought was maintenance.
What are people doing for days they’re not riding, but doing strength training? For example, I ride M/W/SAT and lift for an hour on T/TH. I thought maybe plug in endurance for that 1 hour duration, but it’s kinda just a stab in the dark?
Hey this is a really helpful framing - thanks for sharing. I’m also starting to see the benefits of increasing intake (independent of knowing about this new calculator), but the calculator numbers do seem startling when viewed through the lens/experience of attempting to improve body composition. I guess I’d be curious for more data/results/info putting the two in conversation (or maybe its there somewhere and I missed it!). Looking forward to digging in more
When using calculator, how do you account for weight training? I do a short session on Mondays and Wednesdays and ride 4 days per week. The rides are easy but not sure what to put in for strength sessions.
@Jonathan whether, or not, this nutrition calculator is ‘science based’, something just seems off with it. Looking at the results it gave me, for example, I truly don’t see any way where, at 170 pounds and 11% body fat, I could consume over 2700 calories on a rest day and lose any weight. (But if by ‘optimize body composition’ this is thinking I need to get fatter, then perhaps it’s right, but I definitely don’t want to put on any fat!)
Looking a little farther, on day when I have a 30 minute easy ride, the calculator is telling me I’ll need 260 more calories (all carbs) than a rest day. This means 65 more grams of carbs, for a 30 minute easy ride (which would be 130g per hour), while the calculator is also telling me (at the bottom) to aim for 90g of carbs per hour. And for a 2 hour endurance ride the calculator is saying to add an additional 353g of carbs (1412 calories), or 176g per hour. And for a 1.5 hour Hard ride, the calculator is showing an additional 319g of carbs, or 213g per hour. And 319g of carbs is nearly 1300 calories, which is more than I’m burning during the 1.5 hour hard/interval workout (history shows a range of around 900-950 calories)
this would basically be the Sam Impey app–trying to remember what it was called. HEXIS. It’s mentioned above. It’s really smart, but the macro / food tracker is terrible from what I experienced in January. I heard they were outsourcing to a new company for that. I liked that it synced with trainingpeaks (maybe others too) and gave you what to do prior to rides as well as day of rides as well as intraride fueling.
A lot of people are saying it’s too many calories, they’ll gain weight, etc. etc. I have been working with MetPro for two months now. We significantly increased my calorie intake (slowly about every five days), and my hunger grew with it, my recovery got better, my sleep got better, my blood levels may have even improved because of it (harder to be sure), and I gained zero weight. The way they explain it is that my metabolism “up-regulated” to match increased energy intake. Some people lose weight doing this, some stay same, I understood that it was possible to maybe gain a pound or pound and a half doing this. That said, when you do decide to cut for a few weeks, you start from a higher daily calorie intake, so your metabolism stays higher (as it responds to your reduced intake), and then you get back up to a higher place more quickly to stabilize once you’ve hit the goal or reached the limit for what you can maintain the lower energy intake. I think the tool is really helpful–I’d only like to be able to play with one day as opposed to a whole week–to have the option, basically.
Cool stuff. I’m so glad we are getting smarter about all this.
MetPro doesn’t use this framework, btw, but I did some math, and it matches. I’m on a “cut” right now after “revving” for almost two months, and I’ve gone from averaging about 40cal / kg of ffm to 30-35 depending upon training that day.
I did MetPro for 3 months several years ago (maybe 4 years now). Same methodology. I lost just over 10 pounds. Set a PB over a self chosen course at the close of the program. I have also used their app.
I am tracking my Macros using MacroFactor Nutrition and have my daily Calories given by my nutritionist respecting my body data and cycling schedule. Now I have compared this to what the calculator tells me here and my first reaction was “Wow, who should eat all that carbs and stuff”. The suggestions were way off and above all needs for me, including session fuelings.
FWIW Over the three weeks since then I’ve tracked back to 89.2kg. So no I don’t think I’m gaining weight from the energy availability approach.
I’m not tracking every week, but I am applying what I’ve learned through trying to hit those targets. I have sugar water and gels to fuel work, but I think you need a clear cut way to do 100g/hr to meet these carb targets - or at least to make it easier.
I would expect your weight to increase with more carbs purely because of water weight. It’s like whenever I carb load my weight goes up far more than the amount I ate.
I can do 100g/hour pretty easily on the bike once I actually practice it.
The calculator does seem like it was designed for people in shape to push work. Not people out of shape trying to lose weight and get in shape.
I can’t believe I had to scroll through 130 messages for someone to finally talk about how when you limit your intake your body will adjust and down regulate at a certain point.
Everyone is “maintaining” while under fueling because they have been under fueling for so long that their body has decided some necessary tasks could take a break. Like energy, heat regulation, hormonal balance, making progress in your training (this was the one that hit me and made me finally look into this a while ago).
Adding extra calories properly may turn into gaining an extra kg or two, yes, maybe. But maybe your body NEEDS that to actually run full force. People have to stop road blocking their body.
