Hi, I just started my TR journey 5 weeks ago in an effort to use structured training to build up towards a big race in March 2027 in Australia that will be 230km road.
I used to ride a lot, and am also no stranger to doing 6-8h rides, but I haven’t done anything longer than 3h in the last two years, and I felt tackling 230km will require a bit more thought.
I listened to episodes 589 and 590 of the Ask A Cycling Coach Podcast where the talk was about quality rides over duration in training.
I started TR on a 3 days per week plan, but will look to go to 4 days shortly. Now, my big concern is, just intuitively, if I continue with the plan of 4-6 h training per week, trying to raise my FTP, how that will convert to spending 230km in the saddle in one chunk.
I heard the podcast speaking about Leadville. Do I not have to get used to having the legs working, the sitting bones used to the saddle for a similar duration at least once or twice before the actual race?
If I do these long rides, I am just mindful of sacrificing my training routine based on the 50% rule, but I feel wildly uncomfortable with preparation if I only trained up spending 3h max per training session.
I’d be interested in people’s or coaches thoughts and I do favour a data-driven approach.
So the reality is that doing a >6 hour race off a 4-6 hour weekly training plan is going to involve some big trade offs however you do it. I would agree that you likely need a few bigger rides in training to test out position, clothing, nutrition, etc. But you need to recognise that doing those longer rides comes at a big cost to your structured training.
Personally if you’re not able to increase weekly volume then I’d prioritise the structure, keep the longer rides to just maybe 3-4 sprinkled at intervals of no more than one a month, be very careful how you pace them and when you do them. E.g. Doing a ~4 hour ride at a pace you think you can sustain for the full 230km of your event should be long enough to validate your setup and leave you feeling relatively OK. Diminishing returns from going longer than that. And if you do those occasional longer rides at a time when you can then put extra focus on recovery that’s ideal. E.g. On a Saturday when you’ve not got much on the rest of the weekend and can get some extra sleep. Or when you can take a day off work to recover. End of a training block before a recovery week tends to work well for me though the danger is having a mindset of going all in and emptying yourself at the end of a block and going too deep. Which can leave you still feeling flat when the work starts again instead of fresh and motivated.
I agree with all of this. You don’t need to be pushing your long rides out every single week, and you need to be careful with those big efforts.
I usually say that 8 and maybe 4 weeks out from race day are good times to get a couple of longer rides in, but with so much time between now and race day, getting a couple more in between now and then could work too.
For aerobic stimulus, you only need your rides to be so long, so those tester rides are mostly just stomach/saddle practice.
I’d make sure you’re fueling all of your work well so that you’re used to taking in fuel on race day, and some strength work (core & upper body) could help you remain comfortable later in the race as you start to fatigue. Those few scattered long rides won’t really build up a lot of functional muscle for holding your seated position, so some light maintenance could be really beneficial.
The 50% “rule” is based on the outcome of missing your next high intensity training session. It assumes that your high intensity sessions are more important to meet your training goals than your long ride.
This is probably not true in your situation, at least not for the entire time between now and your event in March.
I would suggest a eventual weekly volume that’s the same as the time you expect this event to take you, for at least a few weeks before hand, and a ride or two of comparable duration to the race (ex: at least 50% of the anticipated time; I personally like closer to 75% as I tend to perform better).
Long rides are fatiguing and you don’t want to do them too often. But it will be helpful to have one or two done in the month before your event under your belt. Perhaps one sooner if you haven’t dealt with bike fit and nutrition in a long time to make sure you don’t need to make any big changes before March.
There is also a difference in training between aiming to race something like this, vs just survive it.
I’m an advocate for getting some big rides in before a long event, but I’d be very careful increasing overall training volume in the month/weeks leading into an event. Ideally, you have peaked your training stress/volume far enough out from your event that the last month is really more about fine tuning your fitness and shedding fatigue. If ramping volume/stress up during the last month before an event, there is a high risk of doing more harm than good (the added fatigue is a real risk and the chance of building fitness that late is low).
I like to peak my training load about a month out from a target event and I’ll typically do a big overload to end that block and then take a month to absorb the stress and fine tune race-specific fitness. I find that doing some shorter races in the month prior is great because the overall stress isn’t that high, but it keeps your fitness sharp and also lets you work on race tactics, positioning, fueling when going hard, etc.
Totally agree with that and the training approach and race tactics will vary greatly depending on the goals for the event/race. It’s particularly true with long mass start events like gravel races where someone might treat it like a TT if aiming to complete it without suffering too much, but the race will have a bunch of early hard surges and attacking if wanting to fight for a high finishing position.
Agreed. I was more thinking the bare minimum. Two weeks at target volume then a mini one-week recovery/taper is what I’ve found over the years to be about the floor I can get away with.
They mentioned that on a recent podcast with Nate, recapping his Leadville strategy from 5+ years ago.
I remember following his account at that time, back when TR had their OG plans. He was doing Sweet Spot Base High Volume religiously and was knocking out 3x20s and 3x30s multiple times per week. He hardly did any long outdoor rides other than Tahoe Trail 100 as a qualifier and maybe 1 or 2 other events.
At Leadville, he went sub-9 and was on pace to do sub 8, but some issue with logistics caused him to miss his last hydration pack swap.
He got his FTP to 330 at Reno elevation and then basically noodled the entire Leadville race at 225ish watts. When you ride at such a low IF you can go all day. I think his exact words were, “it’s like walking.”
TL/DR: FTP is king. Get it as high as possible first. Easier to ride at a lower IF on high FTP than a higher IF on lower FTP.
No, he was right on pace for where he finished (hitting top of columbine at ~4.5 and bottom of powerline inbound @ ~6.5). If you are saying he was on pace to go 8 hours if it held his same pace, OK. But the vast majority of the field lose power/pace in the last 20 miles of the race, it’s why most consider that stretch THE RACE. When you hit the bottom of powerline inbound at 6.5hrs, that’s pretty typical for just under 9 hours. I’m sure the hydration mix up affected his day, but it’s a huge leap to say he had the fitness/pace to finish around 8 based on his result and his pacing for the entire race. In no way is that a knock on Nate’s performance and it highlights that people can do well at Leadville without long rides, but I do think long rides can be beneficial as well.
I think it depends on what the goal of your training at that specific moment is. Long rides and intervals train different things. They both have their place, but one doesn’t completely replace the other.
50+ here. I did the grand fondo plan with long outdoor rides on Saturdays to prep for a 6 day alpine road trip. I wasnt fully complaint with the plan but with AI adjustments the workouts felt about right. Only day 6 was a struggle felt very strong the other 5 days. Would i have done better or worse by being more compliant and not doing the long Saturday rides, who knows. To me it felt it was we the right thing to do. And to me the social and outdoor aspect to the Saturday rides is important. Listen to your body and definitely trial long rides to test setup, nutrition and how you are progressing.
Thank you everyone for the terrific feedback. Religiously increased FTP with a sprinkle of (few) longer rides once build phase is complete is what I take from here. And that feels intuitively right. I am also going to keep an eye on CTL and factor that in to decisions on duration.
Keep in mind that LLMs will simply parrot whatever the perceived average consensus is.
Personally, I cannot deal with 6 days/week of training even if I keep the total training time and intensity profile constant. I found that out in my late 30s, so I recommend you simply try two days of rest.
