Tempo/SST is still burning carbs. From my viewpoint, you never said anything about base. I have no idea if I’m slow or fast twitch. What I can say is that my FTP is a high % of VO2max. If I do tempo/SST as “base” - base training the TrainerRoad way - it caps my FTP and I don’t have a real aerobic base.
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Same here. Extending time at higher wattages required me to go slower and longer (LT1 +/-). Adding SST type loads didn’t get me the time extension.
Put in context, while doing SST based training plans (not TR, private coach but similar methods) I was killing 10 mile TTs but struggling to hold on for 40km. I consider that as fragile fitness.
Switching to more LT1 with some threshold and some VO2max (but nowhere near as much as an SST based program) I was able to push out time at MLSS to the point where 45-60 min at MLSS was replicateable and starting to feel easy. As a bonus, my 20min power was good too.
In retrospect… I wish I’d not spent the better part of ten years doing SST/Threshold type programs. I was too late to the bigger base / LT1 type training approach. In my defense, we live and learn and grow from experience. It was all good and I had fun and some good performances. But certain I left performance on the table due to the FTP Cap phenomena Brian points out.
In a way, it was starting the lactate testing that opened my mind to new approaches to training and the impetus to try a new approach.
$0.02 as always!
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I am also more interested in LT1 values. Maybe I bye myself a lactate meter. You have some tips?
Who do you take the blood samples? Do you stop? Won’t that affect your results?
Depending on global location, there are usually only a few choices. Several of us have bought meters and supplies from Lactate.com
I do my own testing at home so yes, I do have to stop, get off the bike, and do the measurement. It takes about 60-90 seconds. My heart rate starts to recover, but the lactate measure won’t be significantly altered in that very short time period. It is a case of practicality for do it yourself testing. Also, good enough is good enough.
When I test other people, I have them keep pedaling and I prick their finger and do the test for them.
My process:
Ride the interval
Pause the workout
Hop off bike
Wipe finger dry
Wipe finger with alcohol gauze pad
Prick finger with single use disposable lancet
Discard first blood bubble (wipe off with dry paper towel)
Test second blood bubble
Record HR, RPE and Lactate
Hop back on bike
Unpause workout and continue to next step
Using longer steps (5-8 minutes) helps here as you can get back into rhythm, have plenty of time to acclimate to the next wattage level and reach steady state before taking the next sample. I’ve done a bunch of tests using this process and the data looks pretty good. I set up all my supplies on a table about 6 feet from my rollers. Once you get into a process and do it a few times all goes smoothly.
Hope that helps
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Super informative. Thank!
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For those that are confident in where their LT1 is, what does your training look like?
I haven’t done any lactate testing but I’ve had some decent races since I started riding just under my estimated LT1.
I did Joe Friel’s AeT test, looked at HR, RPE and recommendations and settled on a range — 70-75% FTP.
Invariably the rides fall in that range and HR is very similar ride to ride. Obviously many variables to take into account.
Usual week looks like:
Mon - optional 1.5hr @ 60% FTP
Tue - lactate clearance 3x15 @ 110%/80%
Wed - 2hr @ 70-75%
Thu - 2x2hr commute
Fri - optional 1.5hr @ 60%
Sat - same as Wed
Sun - race (recently lots of 50 mile TTs)
Have only been doing this for 6 weeks but race performances have been better than ever 
Not entirely sure how the knowledge of LT1 would affect training structure. However, by riding at LT1 for months I was able to shift it from 255W to 280W (at 70kg). Unfortunately, power curve above LT1 did not move. Adding dedicated threshold and vo2max blocks did not move the curve either. Perhaps the blocks were too short. I can ride at LT1 forever, but this does not help with my racing where you ride longish climbs at threshold, SST, and later at tempo. I would have thought that a strong LT1 translates better to race performance >5 hours where efforts are more intermittent and intense. Racing this season has been sobering.
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How do you adapt your trainings to use this LT1 type of training in a week? Replace Z2 with LT1 training and progress in time? Or use Z2 and LT1 for your training rides and an occasional interval session?
I simply accumulated time in and around LT1 pace. Over time I went from say 30-45 min during a 60-90 min ride to upwards 90-120 min. During the week I would also do a hard day. Typically a mock 10 mile TT with friends. My longer rides during the period were around 3-4 hours.
Without being scientific about progressive overload or increasing time in zone each week, I basically just built a solid aerobic base by riding 8-10 hours a week, at least one long day and accumulating minutes in and around LT1.
During that period my MLSS came back to roughly historic highs and my 20 minute power was about 95% of historic maxima. My long rides became very enjoyable as fitness to ride at LT1 and tempo went way up.
I know that’s not a nicely laid out scientific plan but was more like riding each day with a purpose.
Here is a link to a long thread where different riders describe how they have used LT1 data. Along with ways to determine (estimate) LT1 without lactate testing. The magic is really in accumulating Z2 minutes and increasing time in that zone to develop the base. The LT1 twist seems helpful, but might also just be a means to an end.
As we say over here that’s two cents worth of thinking and about a dollar worth of text to get it
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Low to mid 2 with progressive durations at higher Z2 notionally LT1. Eventually those can become tempo “intervals” late in base or even sweet spot. Or you can just ride a hilly loop.
If you do shorter rides during the week, you can carry those at just below LT1 and progress.
You should not be doing all of your volume at or around LT1.
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I am starting a 6 month block of
70% my weekly rided at lt1 accumulating approx 60-90 minutes at lt1 (1.3-1.8mmol)
30% intervals at threshold Norwegian style (6-8 minute intervals at 2.3-3.0mmol.
Recovery/ easy ride/ rest day when needed based on hrv/ feeling.
12-15 hours per week
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If you can maybe start separate topic and periodically give us some progress info? There will be a few people interested (me) in this and you will maybe get some extra motivation!
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How hard are those intervals?
I am not sure how to answer the question since i do not measure ftp. They are a 6/10 rpe maybe?
Interesting. That seems a low RPE for that length. Is the power much higher than your LT1 rides?
25 watts higher.
What I’m starting to find too, is that IMHO, group rides are always too fast (unless its a fast ride)…like way too fast and too short.
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Hi guys, this discussion has been really interesting to follow. I would like to share what I have done so far on lactate testing, and what my plans going forward are. Any feedback/advice would be appreciated. First, I am a 56yo male, 88kg, 192cm. I bought an indoor bike (Wahoo Kickr Bike) last December and was “fresh off the couch” at that point. One of the first things I did was a TR ramp test and got an FTP of 181w. Also, right around that time, I had a local coach come to my house to do a bike fit and a lactate test. The protocol was 3min at each step, 20w steps:
You can see my lactate is already at 2mmol at 100w, and quickly rises to around 4mmol by 160w.
Next, I trained for about 11 weeks and went to a local university lab for a VO2max test in early March, and they included their version of a lactate test. Basically their lactate test only goes from baseline to the first 1mmol, with the protocol being 4min steps in increments of 25w:
After the first 1mmol rise from base, they continue the test as a VO2max test, increasing by 25w every minute to exhaustion. I was able to complete the 325w step and my relative VO2max was 47.1. The tech there very kindly also took the data from my December at-home lactate test and created a comparison chart of December vs March:
I continued my training and then returned to the university lab four months later, in early July, to get another lactate/VO2max combo test. Here is a comparison of the July result (blue) vs March:
In this test in July, the tech actually stopped measuring lactate at 225w where I was only at 1.4mmol, since it was a rise of almost 1mmol from my 0.5mmol baseline. So on this graph, the point at 250w is simply an extrapolation and not an actual measurement.
For the VO2max segment of this test, I was able to complete the step at 375w, 50w higher than four months earlier. Unfortunately, there was a problem with the mask (outside air leaking in), so I did not get a good VO2max measurement from this July test.
Anyway, that’s what I’ve done so far. This coming week, I plan to go back to the university lab to redo the VO2max test and hopefully get a valid result. I will get the lactate tested as well, but that’s not my main concern, and I’m a little frustrated that they stop the lactate measurements at such a low level.
For lactate, I have followed the advice on this thread and bought a meter. In a couple weeks, I am planning on doing a home test. My idea is to follow the ISM protocol of 10min steps, starting from 125w and incrementing by 30w steps to exhaustion, which I guess would occur at 335w or 365w. Any input on the home testing protocol would be appreciated.
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That was interesting. Thanks for sharing. Did you train much around your LT1 between tests?
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Yes, but it does not make sense to test for La when they switch the ramp to the vo2max test. the vo2max test requires these short steps. Too short for La.
I don’t think 10min are necessary. Perhaps for the early steps but it will get tough at higher intenstities. Going down to 6-8min works for these as well. And 30 W is quite a large step 2. I think step size should scale to expected exhaustion.
Apart from this, nice curves, always fascinating to see how this from-couch-to-trained works. Also quite shocking given that most people are fully sedentary these days.
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