70 minute TTE@FTP is certainly possible. Or your FTP could be higher with a lower TTE. That’s one of the reasons for the “ramp” at the end of the test protocol - if you don’t have a lot of experience “feeling” for MLSS, then this can help suss that out.
I should have done the ramp but didn’t really want to push that hard yesterday. It’s been over a month since I’ve done anything hard over 3 min, so feel is probably off too.
That’s not a TTE test, that’s a 20 minute test minus the “blow-outs” - so reduce it by 0.95 or more = 218W or lower.
35 minutes is the absolute bare minimum TTE. Like, just off the couch and started training for the first time. Or if you’ve had a huge bump in FTP for some reason, your TTE might go down to 35-40 minutes.
Maybe some people who are really in tune with themselves can tell they’re at FTP after only 20 minutes, however, based on the fact that your tests you post in this thread seem to be consistently on the short side and getting shorter, you might be thinking wishfully, which could end with digging yourself into a hole. Take care.
Thanks for the feedback.
I’m not interested in TTE so once I get to the point where I feel like it’s my FTP, I shut it down. This is my 4th time with this type of test and my workouts are going well after the bumps. Could be because I’m not burying myself with too much threshold work, but I feel stronger now than in the past couple of years. Other than not being able to handle VO2 max work over 110-112%, I’m okay with that.
I may try the 20-minute test next week just out of curiosity. We’ll see.
btw, 222 was feeling like I was under my capability, so definitely not going down to 218. My ramp test result a few weeks ago was 210 and I knew that wasn’t right either.
Ah ok, so you’re not going to exhaustion then, that makes more sense.
What sort of threshold work are you doing?
If you’re correct about where your FTP is, and you’re only able to sustain 110-112% for VO2max durations, maybe it’s time for a VO2 block? Edit: assuming you’re looking to raise your FTP that is.
Not being able to do supra-threshold work was for me because my FTP was set too high. Just saying.
I should clarify about not being able to handle higher VO2MAX work. I can do the intervals, but it makes me too tired for doing any other work, including my honey-do list, for that day and sometimes the next day. I’m in my 60’s and retired so I want to enjoy my life, not sit around on the couch trying to recover from something I don’t really need to do. As long as I can still handle the rest of the workouts, I’m okay with my progress.
Thanks again for the feedback. 
Just one caution Tony, with my experience with these tests, I’ve had several times where I was able to maintain something above my actual FTP for about 25 minutes that I would swear was FTP based on feel, but at the 25-30 minute point I would blow up. With those tests, I’ve ended up with threshold about 5W below what I “felt” was FTP, and I based that on my PDC as well as the test result.
The difference of 5W isn’t a huge difference if you’re doing sub-threshold work, but just like with the ramp test, if you’re struggling with super-threshold or VO2max work, it could still be because your FTP is too high. As others mentioned, what you did was essentially a 20-min test without the 5-min blowout.
If you think you’ve got your “feel” truly dialed, then that’s good. I just know that I can’t say that for certain after 20 minutes. I definitely need to get out closer to TTE (say, at least 40 min) before I can make that call accurately.
no. That type of work should be treated as independent of FTP and not a fixed percentage (Coggan classic zones). Just as in the TR workout notes, and the reasoning behind Coggan’s iLevels, you should independently determine power levels to train at vo2max and anaerobic.
Agreed, and I don’t think you can target anything above ftp particularly well unless it is as hard as possible.
There is no “too hard” with vo2 max work. You just blow up, have a few minutes rest, and do it again 
I agree, but I don’t think this particular user is training using WKO5, and it seems they are doing traditional TR VO2max, which is tied to FTP. He commented that he struggles with VO2max work above 110-112% of FTP, specifically. I’m not here to steer TR users to another model. If I’m wrong about his training method, then yes, I agree that tying VO2max work to measured FTP isn’t optimal, but it is certainly viable as a training method as thousands of TR users can attest. It’s not the best by any means, but it can work.
Yet we continuously see on various forums people use 20-min power from random rides as a proxy for an FTP test… You can’t go a week on the TR forum without someone setting a new 20-min power record and commenting on adjusting their FTP. The amount of manipulation of the principles Coggan, et. al. wrote is sometimes mind-boggling. Another example… FTP = “hour power”.
Agreed, but you and I both know that most TR users aren’t doing that unless they dial down intervals after the third or fourth set. And I think those ride notes are frankly glossed over by most people.
Either way, they’re slightly different than the KM all-out. If Chad wanted to specifically go that route, we’d all be encouraged to do them in standard mode (as we should!).
Yes, for example. SSB-2 MV has Spencer +2 which is 6x3-min vo2max. To my eyes Coach Chad appears to favor vo2 work in general, and repeatability to build capacity.
My own is experience is that I either need to reduce the number of intervals, or building more base (traditional base before SSB-2) before attempting something like Spencer +2. Dialing the intensity up or down might also be needed.
It’s all ego and wanting to see the number go up. I’ve done it in the past, and I’ve wanted to do it more recently, but now I’m old and presumably wiser so I avoid the temptation. It manifests now in me overestimating testing target and blowing up earlier, which just means I know that 285 isn’t my actual FTP (or whatever). That damn ego is why self-coaching is so hard.
Most times on this forum, those who are saying VO2max is a strong point seem to be doing things like 30/30s. I can’t think of too many people who do 5 or 6 or 8 min VO2max intervals who would claim it as a strength. 
@Captain_Doughnutman has said he has some vo2 chops / strong / outlier. Interestingly when I have a “bigger base” (more lower aerobic development) some or most of my vo2max interval issues disappear and I can suddenly do 4x3-min at 120% or 4x5-min at 118% (which simply was impossible after doing SSB for base).
I might try just doing my Optimized Interval recommended VO2max work this weekend, probably a 4x5:00 at what works out as 114%. I’ve done two sessions of the KM-like protocol and my power has really tailed off, so I’m interested to see if I could even do the 4x5 at 320W WKO recommends.
I see what I’m doing wrong here, although things have worked out for me in the past. I re-read Moore’s article in Training Peaks and this is what I misinterpreted:
BASELINE TEST, 35-45 MINUTES OR TTE
10 minutes at 92-95 percent of target FTP
Increase to 100 percent of target FTP for 15 minutes
10-15 minutes gradual power increase until exhaustion
I was getting past 50 minutes for the whole test and thinking, okay that’s enough. 
He’s saying 35-45 minutes when you start the first 10 minute interval. 
Maybe I was getting lucky with my previous results being okay with the subsequent workouts because I wasn’t doing the 92-95 percent of target FTP and just going for the target FTP at the start. Who knows? Anyway, lesson learned and I’ll give it another try next week to see what changes.
Thanks again to everyone for the feedback. Helped me learn my lesson. Cheers. 
p.s. I’m still not going to do 120% VO2Max work 