IMO/IME, and I’m not sure if you’re already doing this, but it might be a sign to use erg mode less often.
My n=1 is that when I stopped using erg mode on my trainer for the majority of my workouts, I was not only able to “feel” FTP better, but the majority of my workouts and perception improved across all intensities. It also translated much better to riding outdoors
Fully agree with that. I have completely forgotten about ERG and finally have developed,during past months, a lot better feeling of power zones.
If you put out an effort and raise the watts gradually, you will definitely get to a point where it feels ‘hard, but sustainable’. Push over that and it starts getting exponentially more painful.
Problem is that is the first 10 minutes or so when you’re fresh can muddy the water somewhat. That’s why these tests start with 5-10 mins just under FTP to burn of some of that freshness. Experiment in your threshold workouts if you’re interested.
FWIW I struggle with resistance mode for doing this protocol. That’s mainly because my trainer bike has a triple chainring (terrible chainline) and is only 8 speed, so I have a limited gearing selection. That means I often find myself at undesirable cadences to hold the wattage I want, or else going a little under/over target.
Yes, this is my experience as well. I’ve been enjoying doing threshold intervals going up long climbs on Zwift, and after a bit of looking at the numbers early on in the interval, I find that FTP is quite an “easy” number to hit with reasonable accuracy.
Seems like a lot of others have already answered this, but yes, it kind of is “guesstimate your FTP” and then validate it. It’s not a self-fulfilling thing at all because it is about feeling MLSS and riding at it as long as you can sustain. It’s almost as much a TTE test and FTP validation as anything. If you believe in “training is testing and testing is training”, there’s a great chance you already have your FTP dialed in before you ever test it.
Specifically, KM wrote about coming out of a block of training prior to this test and making an estimate of FTP. He suggested adding 3-8W to your FTP if you feel like there’s been a boost, and then making that your original test target. E.g. My mFTP was 272 up to 274 from this training block - I’ve been training to a 275W FTP. However I did a 15 min MMP test last week which would suggest my FTP is closer to 280, so I’ll start the next test riding at about 270 or so, and over the first ten minutes I’ll build it to 280 or wherever I feel “it”, and then I’ll ride it out as long as possible.
The reason this test wouldn’t be great coming off of a long layoff should be obvious. So you can come in with a four-test PDC developed and get a good mFTP to go from at the start of a season, or you could do something like a TR ramp test or traditional 20-min FTP test to get a good estimated number, then perform this test later in the week to get a TTE start value. (All of that is probably unnecessary, but if you just had to have that info before you started training, you could do it.)
I don’t mean that to sound elitist - I love TrainerRoad for what it is and understand why it is the way it is. I’m still an annual subscriber, still listen to the podcast, and obviously still participate here. But there is definitely a learning curve with this type of testing and power modeling and training based upon it.
Too late, you nailed the elitist part.
I’m curious where you get your stats of “most TR users” who just care about “driving up their FTP” and are too dumb to do the KM test.
I’ve deleted it. Obviously missed the mark, as I wasn’t saying anything about anyone being too “dumb” at all, just that most TR users aren’t diving into their analytics via WKO or something else. Some are, but - I have no stats to back this up - I would guess a broad majority are not.
I apologize for writing it in the first place. I did not intend to imply that anyone was dumb, and am sorry if that’s how it came across.
It didn’t come across that way at all. And I’m a dumb TR user with m a y b e 10th grade reading comprehension.
Lame.
I assumed we were all adults here, guess not. It didn’t come across that you thought anyone was dumb. Those were his words. Elitist? Good grief…no.
So much for the steeped tradition of toughness and a willingness to go beyond…
Thanks for the extensive reply 
. I’m actually as far from being a “standard TR user” as one can get, actually I’m mainly here for the interesting forum content.
I think in the end a lot comes down to personal preference. For me there are just too many uncontrolled variables in the progression you describe (I’m a mathematician by training so I have a problem with “uncontrolled” stuff XD), I prefer the plain old PD curve.
I do agree that “feeling” one’s effort is important, but for me there is just not one magical power “FTP” where everything is different. (I mean, going 10w harder and blowing up way earlier would just as well be the case for a 5min test as well 
.)
For practical purposes I haven’t had a problem with not feeling my FTP so far - in the real world as a climber/time-trialist it’s more important to pace an effort over a fixed distance/duration rather than feel the magical FTP.
I’m nothing if not long-winded…
There’s no one magical number. It changes day-to-day… it’s just the feeling of MLSS (which you’re well acquainted with) and the associated narrow range of power for a day where you’re coming in relatively rested that makes a good “number”.
Yes, there is a power where you can sustain the effort for a long time, and a power somewhat higher where you can’t. That should not be construed as “at 250W I can go for an hour with a steady burn, but at 251W I’ll blow up in ten minutes.” More like “At 250W I can go for an hour with a steady burn, but at 260W, I’ll blow up in twenty minutes.” FTP is essentially a small range of powers associated with MLSS. Anyone who tells you with certainty their FTP within a single watt is fooling themselves. In the example above, say you test at 252W, and set your training FTP at 255W for your threshold and below work, and move on with your life.
FTP itself has become this thing that’s widely misinterpreted in a number of different ways, including the thought that it’s a single fixed number (e.g. “Hour Power”). It’s part of the reason that training based solely on FTP isn’t optimal for a lot of people. That said, it is relatively easy to understand and execute, and can be very effective for many people.
I used to think that, but I ignored the fact that MLSS exists, and below and above are physiologically different.
Had my first go at the Baseline test this evening after a great training block at 255. I created a workout so that I could use Erg and used the plus and minus buttons accordingly (in resistance mode I always feel between gears).
I had a figure of 262 ish in my head as a 3 percent bump.
Set off at 245 and worked up for the first 10 minutes. Then sat at 263 for 15 minutes and then ramped up at about 1 watt per minute for 15 minutes, and then ran out of workout. Average for that block ends up at 266.
I had more in the legs but at the same time I don’t want to train at an overly high number and destroy myself in build.
Do you think 266 is a good number to go with? Should my next effort in 4 weeks time be to go to progression 1?
I’m not too worried about TTE just want a good training number and have found the ramp test to explode my lungs before legs (think thats my asthma) and the other tests annoy me as always between gears.
Train to 265, IMO.
The fact your ERG workout ended before you reached exhaustion suggests you could’ve probably done more work (TTE and possibly FTP is higher than your result). However, I agree with the above - may as well see how it goes at 265w. Would think you’ll be fine to move onto the next progression next time.
I need some help from the forum. Currently and for the next 4-6 weeks I’m in my “offseason”. Doing heavy lifting, running, snowboarding and riding 2-3h per week indoor, mostly in z2. At the end of this period, I’d like to do the baseline FTP test. My FTP is (was) 240 @ 155lbs. However, I expect it to be lower by the time of the test. The question is:
How do I set the target FTP?
Thanks. H
You’ve been doing aerobic ‘stuff’, so I wouldn’t be so sure it’s dropped off much, although you might not be feeling sharp. It’s best to have an idea going into the test - perhaps start working in some efforts to try and gage roughly where you are.
If you’re set on sticking to Z2 until you test, then it’s probably not a big deal. Maybe lower FTP by 5-10w. You’ll still be familiar with what riding at 95-100% FTP feels like, so however you program your workout, make sure to adjust on the fly. After ramping gently for 10 mins or so, try to settle in once you get that FTP-feeling and just push the pedals til you can’t.
I’d honestly just drop it a few, maybe only as low as 235. Then do the FTP/TTE test. Id’ also do the Ramp Test to as a “second set of eyes” so to speak maybe later in the week.
Or you could keep it as is…do a week of SS efforts or maybe even a few FTP intervals and take stock of how you’re feeling.
I took a few months off moving back from the UK and I set my FTP about 25 watts lower (I also gained a lot of weight) and I hit it almost perfectly. Validated with Ramp Test. Now after 12 weeks of base I’m back up about 10-12 watts heading into Build.
Don’t stress too much about it. It’ll come back just be consistent.
Good luck!
Just curious here, why have you guys gone with this test outside of the ramp or standard 20mins.
I am seeing a lot of chat recently around the ramp test is too hard or something similar. Or I ramp tested and my numbers suck?
Personally I have increased 10w each time I have used the ramp test since October. I am just curious to understand why people have gone with one test over the other.
All FTP tests are just a way to estimate FTP. Some will suit certain riders more than others. The ramp test protocol with the 75% estimate is probably accurate enough for about half of all riders. Riders with particularly strong or particularly weak anaerobic capabilities will over- or under-perform on the Ramp test.
It is far more costly to train at an FTP that is too high, and there’s some portion of TR users who consistently do this. Those riders would be better served training to a slightly lower (and probably more realistic) FTP.
This specific protocol is designed to teach people what the feeling of riding at Mean Lactate Steady State is, and it will also show you your sustainable power at MLSS (FTP) with as much accuracy as is possible from a field test on any given day.
Some people prefer the longer test because it will likely give them the most realistic estimate of the FTP; others like it because it’s a great workout in itself; still others like it because it is a good test of what you can really sustain for long periods and that suits their riding.
TL;DR: if you want to know what your FTP is, ride your FTP and sustain it as long as possible. This is not a great test to do if you have no clue what your FTP is and/or don’t dive into your data much (e.g. with WKO5, Golden Cheetah, etc.). There’s a bit of a learning curve with it (pacing, feeling, estimating FTP coming in). I think of it more as a TTE test/FTP validation rather than an exploratory “what’s my FTP now?” test.
I actually get a very similar result in the longer KM test and ramp test…but i think the KM test is a better workout AND I like the confidence it gives me in KNOWING I ran ride at that power for 40+ mins.
However you do need a reasonable estimate of your FTP before doing KM test which for newer less experienced riders may be difficult.
In that case I’d recommend doing ramp test to give ball park figure, then following week do KM test to back it up and get food workout.