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Is that using the baseline test? I assume you still need reasonable estimate of current ftp to do the test?
Same here. I have been training with power and tracking my data for a long time and know that I have a relatively poor anaerobic capacity, which means my ramp test results are significantly lower than any of these protocols. Especially when I haven’t done much higher end work prior to the ramp test.
One thing to note is that heat management can play a big factor in a long test, so make sure you have adequate cooling and hydration as that could affect the TTE result.
Chris B
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Yes you need the estimate and range in mind. Doing this in erg will test your TTE and resonable FTP number. I have started from Progression 1 version and simply wasn’t finishing full ramp part, as my TTE was shorter than 50 min.
But this test should be done by feel - if your FTP went up the erg move can underestimate during ramp part. And knowing how FTP feels is also important part of the equation.
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Especially cooling! The difference between tests can be easily 20-30 min in TTE
Think I’ll start with baseline as unsure of TTE given VERY rare I ever race or cycle over 60 mins (except 75 and 90 min TR workouts). I believe that the TR ramp test over estimates my FTP as sweetspot still feels harder than it should in my book and longer v02 intervals always need doing at 112-115% ftp rather than stated 120%.
Be interesting (even if bad for ego!) to give it a go!
You can always approach it as just another workout (vs a “test”). Cuz really, it’s a great Threshold session! Good luck!
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Totally agree, and I think a lot of people get overwhelmed at the thought of a long threshold interval/workout/test (even the TR guys!) but it really is not that bad. I find VO2 workouts much more difficult, painful, unpleasant, etc.
Hi all, I tried prog 1 today. I’ve always tested lower on the ramp test ~280-285w and have gradually increased my ftp to 293w while hitting my targets. I’ve completed HV sustained power build plans and am testing prior to moving onto specialty. I had a personal carrot to chase after holding 298w for 42 min last year at a hill climb. Despite having followed HV sweet spot and sustained power build plans, I haven’t really done any efforts over 20 minutes at threshold since the plans never called for them and no hill climbs this year.
I lasted on my test to 44 minutes, avg 297W. Should I use this as my ftp?
Is there a certain point that you call failure? The last min or so was grinding cadence way lower than what I usually hold so not sure whether to use a shorter TTE/higher power? I also did this whole effort seated on the trainer in erg - are you allowed to stand to gut out the last minute or so of the test? If chasing watts, feel like I could have gotten 1 or 2 more watts out of it 
Here’s my file. Appreciate any tips.
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Yes use 297w with a TTE of 44mins. With your TTE you can use this information to make sure you get enough time in zone for sweet sport or threshold workouts. I.e time in zone adds up to more than TTE. I don’t know how much by, I guess its on a person to person basis. You can figure out how much you really need over time.
Sprinting at the end to eek out a couple of extra watts is kinda besides the point of this test which is to get an FTP that you can actually ride at. Having said that, an extra 2w isn’t going to make or break your training, your power fluctuates by more than that during an interval!
Thanks. How does one utilize hill climb TTs to assess FTP? Based on holding 298w for 42 min for an all out hill climb last year, could I have been training with an ftp of 298w this past year? I’m thinking of doing the hill climb again as a personal test to see if I can better my time - is this another valid ftp assessment if I can (hopefully) go a little faster with higher watts?
I guess I’m a bit bummed that after a year of training with TR, my 44’ at 297w for this prog 1 test vs my 298’ at 42’ for my hill climb last year doesn’t seem like any progress…
I love the app et al, but it can lead to stagnation. I’ve done the exact same plans as you – SSHV & SBPHV – and never achieved a new FTP (or TTE). It’s a LOT of time (5 months!) spent doing pretty much the same thing = plateau. It was only until I broke the mold did I then start to experience noticeable gains. Also, if you use FTP as the only measuring stick, this can lead to disappointment. Time to switch it up and give your body some new stimulus.
yes, agreed, and having done SSB-1 HV it is too much sweet spot work. If you have 8-12 hours/week then spend more time at zone2.
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I think the answer is maybe. Many folks have differences in what they can hold indoors vs. outdoors for various different reasons. Cooling, perceived exertion, trainer inertia, visual stimulus, etc. but the point is 297 indoors might mean you can do more on the road. Only way to know is to give it a shot.
I was thinking of the best way to describe “failure” at the end of the test, and I think you just know. Maybe it is doing it a few times and getting a feel for it, but there is definitely a point where breathing gets more ragged, holding the cadence becomes difficult, and no matter how hard you try, power drops.
On the topic of progress, it all depends on how you define progress. Did you improve in other areas? Did you hold the FTP and train less (i.e. more efficiently)? If your goal was to increase FTP, then not much progress was made, although you might find you can do a little more on the road, and especially on a climb.
For me, listening to the KM podcasts was a reminder of things I have done that have worked well in the past, that maybe don’t get addressed by the canned TR plans. Don’t get me wrong, I like the plans, but these are the things I feel like I need to revise to see more progress:
- Longer intervals, minimum 15 minutes and hopefully a total of 60 minutes per workout
- Denser training blocks, i.e. a focused FTP block of a month or so with the workouts progressing through the block.
- One long and hard ride a minimum of every other week. 4-5 hours with at least a couple of 20 min L4 intervals.
- More volume. Sometimes you just can’t expect more if you haven’t done any more work.
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Echoing the above comment, yes maybe. I dont know what your training looked like after said hill climb, you may have differences indoors/out, differences between climbing and flat riding. Any of these factors mean 298w may have been a bit high.
Doing the tt again is about the best comparison to see where you are, prep well for it and if you dont hit the same number dont sweat it.
You’ve got your bench mark with the KM ftp protocol, do some good blocks of training and see if you have any improvements. Make sure you get a V02 block in there too (and allow time for improvements to show). Then make an assessment as to whether your training is working.
@RobertSims To echo what some other people have already outlined, I have a few observations about how this test compares to the Ramp Test.
First, I felt less “gassed” after the Kolie Moore Baseline test. With Ramp Test, the effort associated with the last minute or so can leave me incredibly gassed, and with more of a feeling that I’ve done some “muscular” efforts. When cadence starts to fall off at the very end, and I continue to try and push to empty the tank as much as possible, I can sometimes find myself a bit sore the next day.
I’m really “wrenching” on the handlebars, and really putting forth some hard effort at that point.
Second, the Kolie Moore tests are confidence-inspiring with regard to whether you can truly hold your FTP for a long duration. I performed the Baseline test, extended the work effort to 50 minutes (versus the original 40), and possibly still had some in the tank. This may have been the first and only time I had ever tried to hold this level of power for a long duration, and now I can proceed with the confidence that I am capable of such an effort (or more) going forward.
Finally, a few pieces of advice. First, warm up adequately. @alexgold123 's versions of the tests build in a good warmup, around 20 minutes in length. Second, start “conservative.” I came off of a ramp test a few weeks ago that put me at 273. Given that I’d never tried a long-duration test, I set my FTP in TrainerRoad at 245, and used @alexgold123 's Baseline Test workout. After the first 10 minutes at around 235-240, I felt confident I could kick it up and keep going. This allowed me to ride the second 15 minute block at a little above the prescribed effort level, and make it through the entire ramp without completely blowing up. Once I hit the end of the ramp, I kept riding at that level for 10 minutes more before cutting it off at 50 minutes. Even though I started at a conservative 245, my average for the entire test block was 260, with a NP of 260. I think going out too hard and trying to “hang on” is way more detrimental than starting a bit low, and realizing you can kick it up as the test proceeds.
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I’m planning on doing this, although I also know from some TT efforts and intervals out on the road that I can hold my ramp test FTP (276) for 25 minutes at least. Though I was probably over FTP then. I’ll probably set my FTP at 270 and see how that works.
That sounds like a good plan. As others have also pointed out, you can always adjust as the test continues. But, going out too hard will almost certainly “make you pay” as you get longer into the test interval and ramp.
This is very understandable but odd at the same time. It’s a bit of a mind shift, testing FTP via TTE vs FTP via VO2max/MAP (ramp test). TR seems to have conditioned people to shoot for the stars instead of reality – you lowered your FTP so you could chase a longer TTE. I guess when you transition between different tests there’s going to be some degree of wobble. Assuming your TTE with ramp level FTP would have resulted in a shorter TTE, you would then train to extend; now with a lower FTP, you will be training to raise…which is what TR teaches us to do.
Again, not saying this approach is wrong, it’s just not yet homogenous.
FWIW, my record of TTEs:
49min – baseline
60min
43min
57min
52min – progression 1 (finally!)
Note on the Prog1 test, about half way through I knew I had hit my FTP, I had the “feel” for it. So if I was testing for my FTP, I could have stopped there, but it’s TTE… Guess that’s another difference between ramp and TTE: doing TTEs will develop your feel for your realistic FTP, even without looking at your power meter; a ramp test simply makes you smash it out until you drop which perhaps only develops your ability to suffer…?
Any specific clues?