Well…I did the baseline test and was really pleased with it. My ftp per last ramp test was about 310w, but knew it this might be high so left ftp at 310w BUT dropped intensity to 97% to give an effective ftp for the workout of 300w to be on conservative side. I kept power a bit above target for first 10 min block and the following 15 min block. Felt…good, felt close to edge but strong. When it started to ramp up I felt I could hold existing power but not really ramp higher so quit after couple of extra mins. So in total I lasted 28 mins with average of 306w…so pretty much inline with ramp test BUT found this test less of a killer and also a really good workout in itself. Also confident I could have held power at 306ish watts for bit longer (certainly over 30 mins, likely 35-40min I’d guess), but not ramp it up much more above this.
Overall really positive and felt this is an accurate approximation of ftp…it also says that TR ramp test works pretty well for me, but this test I prefer…but do feel you need a good approximation of ftp before you start!
Another bonus…2020 and all time power records from about 22-30 mins!
Lol, in ramp test defence I did say I thought I could have lasted bit longer with that average, just the test calls for ramp up after 25 mins and I didn’t think I’d last long with ramp so called it a day. At 306w I’m confident I’d have done at least another 5-10 mins.
Mmmm…personally, my HR@FTP is pretty reliable so I look at that first over the period of 10min or so; breathing is another one, as the Coggan chart states: “continuous conversation difficult at best, due to depth/frequency of breathing”; additionally, RPE…it took me 5 TTE tests to get to the point of knowing that ‘yeah, I can hold this for an hour’ feeling. It might seem a bit tricky to have to be paying attention to all these things during an FTP test but…that’s the price ya pay! It’s worth it!
So I have a 1-hour TT and a just-under-1-hour TT in my race history, would you be looking at average heart rate in… last 30 minutes? Middle 30 minutes? The whole thing?
Might just be a useful guide for when I do the test, e.g. if I haven’t hit that HR at 15 minutes into “FTP”, knock the power up a bit.
Just realised that the TR workouts for this in the group are not exactly same as in the article…for example baseline on TR workout is 10 mins at 96%, then 15 mins at 102%, then a ramp. Per article it is 10mins at 95% then 15 mins at 100% then a ramp. Similar differences for progression 1.
Well, I know you will get a lot of opinions on the HR topic, but for me it is far better to rely on the power numbers and sensations I have developed a feeling for. Maybe HR data collected over many tests, under similar conditions, over a long period of time could be useful, but many times will have you chasing some number that is impacted by outside factors. I.e. it’s more valuable as a post test analysis metric, but not to set your FTP target.
Like the TR guys say, there’s no “failing” a test. I always learn something, even if that is how not to do an FTP test. After several long FTP tests, you develop a very good feel for what you can do and what is too much. If you aren’t sure, take a risk and set an aggressive goal, and see what you can do. It’s not an exact science anyway, PM error is probably in about the same range as your sensitivity to effort, so you might be 5 watts off, but so what. You still get a good number, and the whole point is to get your training zones set right so you can get to work on driving it up, right?
If you really feel like you messed up the test, or could have done more, just take a recovery day and do it again the following day.
The test should be done by feel so resistance/standard mode so the percentage is not important - simply ride just under ftp and then at the power you think is your FTP. The workouts designed in TR group (thanks again) are done in the way that if you are doing them in ERG mode your average till reaching the ramp test should be your current FTP (a little bit over as I remember). This way with ramp part you gain FTP. But this test in ERG mode is a lot less useful in my opinion (and I have done that).
You’re off the front with about half an hour to go. You’re doing a TT. Knowing what threshold feels like is useful because it isn’t exactly the same every day.
As for HR as a guide, I know KM says look at this after the ride and do the ride by power. But can’t hurt to observe all data when you’re just starting to figure things out.
This. I’ve become a lot less strict in my power obsessiveness this year. During a workout, if I hit 95%FTP instead of 97%, I know I’m still getting a lot of the same benefits.
The idea is to approach the test with a target FTP in mind. The percentages quoted in the article are a % of target FTP, not current FTP.
By default the workout Alex created factors in a small increase for you - something like 2% if you make it about 40 mins in IIRC. If you’re looking to just verify your current FTP, I’d consider reducing FTP a few watts before the test. You can always adjust the intensity on the fly either way.
Yes, I think my problem was not really understanding the ramp was optional. As soon as felt ramp was too high then I quit…when I could have stayed at current ftp/little higher for fair bit longer. Will try again next week
@Captain_Doughnutman, I’m curious about your experience on this front. Similar to what Kolie describes in his podcasts, I hit a point around 35-40 minutes where my breathing was elevated, but controlled, while my legs started to feel like they were actively fatiguing. It was not a “quads on fire” burn that you might get when going well above threshold, but more of a building “slow burn” where I started to understand I could not hold the effort forever. Incidentally, I felt a similar feeling in yesterday’s 5x13 FTP workout toward the end of the penultimate interval, and through about half of the last interval. This leads me to believe that I was fairly spot on with my first attempt at a longer-duration test.
I don’t know why everyone needs/wants an ERG workout for this. The idea is to ride to your FTP by feel. Start at high sweet spot/low threshold, hold for 10 minutes or so. Slowly build power until you can’t keep your breathing starts to or is about to get ragged. Push or back off to keep on that edge. Go until you can’t.
So many things about it just don’t jive with an ERG/structured model. So… don’t try to make it work like that.
For whatever it’s worth, I tend to agree with your point, especially for the purposes of Kolie Moore’s protocols. I recently sold my smart trainer, and now just use an indestructible Kurt Kinetic fluid trainer. When performing this test, I was never “obligated” to ride strictly to the wattage range or ramp, and I did not have to fiddle with turning the workout intensity up or down. Rather, I just used the prescribed wattage as a baseline or guide, and actually ended up riding over the power target as I settled into a rhythm.
Thank you for posting this, I’ve been wanting to say the same. I did my first long test almost 3.5 years ago, before buying an indoor trainer or using WKO or Xert or TrainerRoad.
For anyone that prefers the trainer to riding outside - my suggestion is to consider loading up Zwift and just go out and ride hard like Erick posted above. Or use TrainerRoad and turn off Erg.
I’ve long shared the same point of view. I started on a dumb trainer and am now on a smart trainer. I find that with ERG I don’t have to “try” as hard. Maybe it’s psychological, but I did find benefits in riding in resistance or slope mode. Really having to pay attention to all sensations. Even made a thread here a while back and got destroyed by the ERG crowd.
I’ve read and re-read most of this thread and it’s a long thread so hopefully someone can help me with trying to determine my FTP from doing the baseline test today. This is the one posted in the Team Gold team forum.
I did the test in resistance mode (level 3). After doing a warmup and calibration in another custom workout, I got through the first 20 minutes of the warmup in the test without any issues other than adjusting to resistance mode/gears and had a pretty good handle on what to do.
The first 10 minute interval had a target of 96% of current FTP so I stayed in that range - no problem other than adding to fatigue, etc. The next 15 minute interval had a target of 102% of current FTP and that’s where I paced myself on what I could (kinda, sorta) hold, which was above the 102% and more in the 105%+ power range. The issue I had was that by the end of that 15 minutes, I was pretty gassed and my cranky arthritic knees were barking at me, so after a few seconds in the ramp that started in the next interval, I pulled the plug.
Sooooo … did I go far enough to determine my FTP? If so, what section(s) do I look at? The 10 and 15 minute intervals? The 15 minute interval only? I’m pretty sure it can’t be the average for the whole test since there are recovery valleys.
