Hello all,
Do you think keeping FTP same at app for a long time and aiming high level progressions like 9-10/10 is a good approach?
Or should I update my FTP every month and keep my progression level around 4-5/10?
Thanks 
Iâm an advocate for higher PLâs but I think youâre leaving some gains on the table going for 10âs across the board.
Have you looked at some of the 10 workouts. Theyâre brutal. And if you can knock them out across all zones youâre likely training at too low an FTP.
In general I say trust the system and its scheduled tests.
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Am I missing something here? Surely it doesnât matter - they are just two different ways of expressing the same thing?
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As progression increased, interval powers are increasing, interval durations are increasing and rest intervals are shortening. But when you increased FTP, Just interval powers are increasing.
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More importantly - by the time you have your weakest at 10 youâve probably been leaving gains on the table in your strongest portions of the power curve. It seems like PLs are meant to ensure you donât get overblown with one type of workout (lets say sprints) while being under challenged in another (endurance or SS).
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This type of PL chasing (Fill 'em all up!!!) is exactly what they donât want people doing. Itâs unlikely there is a rider profile or fitness need aligns with matched PL across the board, not to mention aim for 10âs. Bad idea IMO.
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Basically what OP is aiming at is the same as a C student repeating the same year at school for five years, hoping for straight Aâs in the process. It will happen, but by that time other kids will be in college.
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Nate has said on the podcast that there are benefits to staying in the same progression with your intervals getting longer and your PLs higher at some points in training (e.g as your A event approaches). Think theyâre hoping to get machine learning to take into account whether youâd be better off increasing your ftp and dropping PLs or sticking with the same progression when a ramp test is due. Given how many people are motivated by having their FTP go up this might be challenging for some users though even if it is more beneficial for their goals!
Last season before AI FTP D I kept my FTP the same for long periods just moving it up or down as I felt. I think it worked for me results wise, although I didnât really pay attention to PLs. I think keeping the FTP stable resulted in longer and longer times at or near it as in a TT and focusing on training in the TT position.
With AIFTPD my detected FTP has went up slightly more than I would have moved it, which is mostly my fault. As workouts have got harder Ive tended to rise out of the TT position to power through it and target wise AIFTPD is seeing it as a success. It is too early to say though if keeping my FTP more stable or allowing it to fluctuate with AIFTPD is best for results. I have only done one TT so far and got a nearly 3mins course pb but I was caught in traffic the last time I did it.
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For me PL levels drop too much after an FTP update, so that workouts at the new levels become objectively easier than the original planned workout pre ftp update (lower power, less time in zone)
I made a topic about this earlier
Donât know about how much they drop now (doing my own pol experiment) but I agree that if youâve be doing structured training for a while, most workouts under a PL of 5 seem to feel a bit to easy.
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To me it seems as though the intention is for most peoples levels to hover around the 4-7 range in order to be the most productive.
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FTP is a close to a functional estimate of your power output at Maximal Lactate Steady State. So if your FTP estimate is off, you might be riding intervals at power outputs that are not going to have the desired training stimulus.
Using an extreme example, say your FTP estimate is 270 but your real FTP is 300. If you are chasing PLs like the OP, a 100% FTP threshold effort at the lower estimate is really a 89% effort (based on real FTP.). So instead of doing a traditional âthresholdâ interval youâre doing a tempo interval. Or if you are doing over/unders at the lower estimate, you are in reality doing under/more-unders based on your real FTP.
I donât know about other people but I can knock out workouts with 90+min time in zone at 89% without too much of a problem, doing a similar amount of TiZ at 100% real FTP is not going to happen.
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I do find it interesting that prior to PLs so many people were overly focused on FTP and increases in FTP. Now it seem some of those people have shifted to not wanting to raise FTP because they are overly focused on PLs.
Iâm not entirely sure what to think of it. FTP is a functional estimate of power at a certain physical state and arguably one of the best predictors of overall performance, PLs are scorings of workout difficultiesâŚ
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Iâve been letting the plan do its thing, but Iâm definitely irritated lately at having a new FTP every few weeks, which changes by 2-4 watts and then drops my PLs which feels like itâs stalling out my progression, because yâall, I am not a high FTP person (smallish lady, ftp currently around 190) but I cannot tell a difference in that few watts when Iâm mostly doing VO2 and anaerobic workouts at the current phase. Iâd rather have the progression in interval/rest length.
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Iâm increasingly of the opinion that PLs have been a little bit of a mis-step by TR. Because if you donât want people chasing them, but you need to tell people not to chase them, then frankly your product isnât working right. I would personally have implemented the concept of adaptive training but not put any numbers next to the workouts. Just say it will automatically adjust to your needs and leave it at that.
But I have a friend or two using PLs and Iâve watched in concern as their talk has turned to âgoing to try an 8.7 todayâ, and âbumping out my 4.5 for a 6.3â and so on, resulting in a training block where virtually every threshold or over-under workout was all but an FTP test, littered with failed intervals and back-pedals.
With that said, my advice to the OP: follow the PLs and test at the end of each training block. If your FTP increases but you donât like how low your PLs have dropped, knock a little off your FTP then manually replace your first week of workouts with higher PLs, before starting the process again and seeing how you get on.
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There are threshold workouts in Library that go up to 105%, so of your ftp really is more than 10% like in your example youâd still be in the right zone
Yes, but a 100% would be at 90%. And 90% would really be at 80%. And 120% would be more like 108%âŚ
So if you are doing 105/95 over/unders they would be more like 97/85 and you arenât doing to over hard enough to go sufficiently anaerobic and stress your system in the unders to catch up. If youâre doing your 120% VO2max but its really 108% you probably arenât going hard enough for the short period of the intervals to achieve vo2max state (you could extend the intervals and eventually get there.)
Are you doing work? yes. Are you working in the right zones to develop the desired adaptions? Maybe yes, maybe no.
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By definition increasing the effort in rest will raise av and norm power, but it wonât likely achieve the goals of the workout. If you want more steady state work, select train now workouts with steady state power or a plan with more steady efforts. Increasing your power during rest intervals isnât going to move the needle on the expected outcomes of most workouts the way selecting a workout with higher power for work blocks, more reps, more sets or longer reps would. Each of these will have slightly different effects, but it would seem to me that in all but a few specific circumstances raising power on rest intervals is going to buff your power numbers without giving you improved training.
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Maybe⌠depends on the difference between real FTP and estimated FTP, vo2 kinetics, and a bunch of other factors.
3min @108% isnât getting me to vo2max. 4min probably isnât either. Maybe 6, maybe not. Eventually I will but that might not be within the length of interval in the programmed workout. It doesnât change my position that inaccurate FTP estimate can have people training at the wrong power levels / interval length to elicit the desired changes. Look at my over/under example. They become under/more unders and arenât generating enough lactate / metabolic byproducts to get what one wants to get out of over/unders. One might be doing shorter vo2max intervals but never hitting physiological vo2max because the effort is way too low due to not wanting to change FTP and chasing PLs.
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