Keeping FTP Same and Aiming 10/10 Progression vs. Updating FTP and Hovering Around 4-5/10

Training
23

There are also 115/98% regular o/u and a few with 105/120% (these overs are usually very short though)

24

I would say that early in training when your FTP might be changing by 5% or more than you need to up your ftp to stay in zone and remain challenged. However for myself my FTP barely fluctuates anymore and time at VO2 max, repeatability, duration at threshold are all the only areas I can realistically gain substantially with training. For myself, I love the progression levels because it allows me to find appropriate workouts to improve in these areas, as big ftp changes are no longer seeming to be in my future.

1 Like
25

Missing the forest for the treesā€¦

2 Likes
26

My only comment about what levels to use is what I found works for me. I like starting a new training block where sweet spot is at 5, threshold at 4 and Vo2max At 5. Anything less in my opinion isnā€™t worth changing my ftp for.

28

Why do you have a new FTP every few weeks? Most of the plans put ramp tests every 6 weeks.

29

My last two tests have been 4 and 5 weeks apart as designed by plan builder

30

Gotcha. So the long end of ā€œfewā€. You can always skip the ramp test and proceed. Then add one a few weeks later so you doing one every 6-7 weeks. Thatā€™s the beauty of the AIFTP you donā€™t have to mess up a training to do a test. Just add a ramp test, click it and update if you want!

1 Like
31

Itā€™s a balancing act. Aim for level progression relevant to what your goal is but once you get to a 9 it wonā€™t hurt to update the FTP. Pick your time for the update so it doesnā€™t clash with an event

1 Like
32

Most of the plans have a FTP test every 4 weeks. Every 6 weeks is only in the Base phase.

33

Right was obviously thinking SSB. Stand corrected

On a recent podcast @Nate_Pearson said they are working toward the default plan is will not include ramp tests. AIFTP will change as needed. That will be amazing!

34

I agree, but am curious:

under what circumstances is someone doing a Progression level 9 or 10 workout?

35

Either:

  1. Their FTP is set incorrectly
  2. They are heavy biased towards either low or high end of the power curve
  3. They just want to watch the world burn.
5 Likes
36

:joy::joy::joy:

37

That is truly funny

However, my question for the TR team remains, when is a threshold session with a PL of 9 or 10 utilized in training? Is it used as a test? When does it make sense to do them, if ever?

1 Like
38

I was doing 8-9.1 Threshold Workouts leading up to the end of my plan last season. I had skipped testing and was working on TTE. I would have to choose alternate workouts to spend long intervals at 100% instead of going over.

I saw Nate doing Unicorn or another 10 Thresh workout but he was on a rapid ramp back up to his previous level. I suspect that is more likely the situation, where athletes are ramping up their fitness quickly and following the adaptations up to test day.

1 Like
39

This has been my experience. AT had me updating my FTP every 4 weeks or so until the last 7 or so weeks before my ā€œA Eventā€. It didnā€™t have me retest, but had me maintain my previous FTP to continue with my progression levels as I got closer to the event (which is in two weeks).

1 Like
40

I remember Chad saying that thereā€™s no ramp test half way through the specialty phase of the plans because the work intended to raise your aerobic fitness and aerobic endurance is basically done by that point.

2 Likes
41

  • Maybe, maybe not. We see plenty of people chasing FTP, TSS, CTL and other metrics within this space. Like any tool, they can be used well to poorly and everything in between. None of these are absolute or all-telling of our fitness, gains and such.

  • With any tool, education of use and understanding of relevance are important. In that light, I think TR has done fairly well for offering initial info and related support along the way. We do see some misunderstanding and incorrect use of PLā€™s, as evident in one forum topic in particular a while ago, but elsewhere like this too. But again, thatā€™s not unlike the other metrics we see used incorrectly for focus and/or evaluation.

  • When used for their main purpose (to select appropriate workouts to meet plan and/or progression goals), I think PL & WOL are quite useful. Iā€™ve leveraged them plenty of times to either dial up or down my planned workout relative to what was scheduled, as well as add to my plan. But using them as more of a fitness target is at least a bit misguided.

3 Likes
42

One way to find out might be to search for workouts with workout levels of 9 and 10. If you do this for threshold workouts you unearth an Hour Record Attempt workout, amongst others.

43

I answer this question with another question: Would you use this philosophy of training/learning/improvement for anything else?

In my experience in math, learning real analysis made me way better at calculus than learning calculus did. Similarly, I would hypothesize that doing 20 min intervals at progressively higher watts (increasing FTP) will make pedaling at lower watts easier than progressively longer intervals (increasing PLs) at lower watts. At least for zones threshold/sweetspot +