If I simplify it right down, if I put my availability to 7 hours a week over 4 days, sometimes Join will give me a rest day or a workout that doesn’t use all that time, because it wants to very carefully and conservatively build me up. If I have a week away at work coming up when I can’t ride, I want to maximise my training, but Join will not look forward at all and will force rest days. That’s fine if you have the capacity to follow the plan to the letter and achieve that gentle ramp up, but if I’m off the bike for a week, that’s not going to happen anyway and I’d be better off pushing a bit more before the break.
TR gives (me) 3 key workouts a week, and I can do what I want in between. If I do too much, it will change the makeup of those workouts, but won’t force rest days that don’t necessarily suit. I can even ignore it completely and based on my current state, get a TrainNow workout. It never refuses to give me a workout, but it will still protect you from issues with yellow and red days.
I think that’s a very optimistic view. Yes, TR will give you a workout, but using your scenario, if it’s a rest week and you have a week off the following week, will TR adapt to that and maximize the work or will you end up getting a rest week followed by a week off? In that case, TR isn’t looking forward and adapting either.
It’s true that Join won’t assign you a workout on a specific day if it thinks you’re overdoing it, but is that really any different than TR giving you a 45 minute LOW TSS ride because it’s a rest week even though you have a week off the following week? You’re going to replace that ride with something else anyway, so what was the benefit of being assigned a workout you’re going to ignore anyway? Also, Join does not force you to take the day off, you can still pick and execute one on your own, just like you would be doing in TR.
I’m not saying there aren’t good things and bad things about both platforms. I’m currently not using either one. I’m just saying that in your scenario of a rest week before a week off I don’t think either system adapts well if you want to skip the rest week. You’re going to have to manually override in both.
A small tip I’ve found helpful when JOIN’s programming gets a bit out of whack.
E.g. if you find yourself with:
Z2
Z2
Z2
Rest
VO2
Threshold
Strength
Look ahead to the next 3 day block and pull one of those workouts back.
JOIN will readjust the next 3 day block and not confuse things.
I suspect this happens because as I said above, JOIN is basically an IF/THEN algorithm, and if you haven’t done a “VO2” in X days, where the regularity of X depends on your program, it will prioritise programming a VO2 day. E.g. a base program might have IF not done VO2 in 20 days, do VO2, but close to a race that 20 days might be 5 days. I secretly suspect what is behind the whole app is just this ordered and prioritised set of IF/THENs (and nothing more complex, certainly no LLM).
I think that sequence is intentional. I had something but first the hard days that planned for me but today’s vo2max session was a lot harder for me than join anticipated (still not fit after a recovery week followed
by flu) and it moved the threshold session back to what were initially easier days.
I just made the sequence in my post up arbitrarily. I have seen VO2 before threshold, threshold before VO2 and Strength anywhere at all in a 3-day block.
I’m not trying to micro-periodise for anyone, but I just don’t think 3 hard days then 3 easy days is good periodisation for me. I tend to get JOIN to follow John Wakefield of Bora’s prescriptions (he has publicly spoken about using 3d on 1d off with only one properly hard session in each 3 day block, one longer endurance workout in each block. I tend to use the third day to do on the bike heat training and lift.
That’s a fair point. The lack of ability to look/plan ahead is definitely one of the things that’s frustrated me about JOIN. It is annoying to know I have vacation coming up but the only thing to do about it wait until the Sunday before and set my availability to 0s across the board.
That said, I don’t notice the forced rest days that much since at this point I’m really not training a lot so I suppose it’s fairly uncommon for me to have a day where I want it to give me something and it won’t.
Although I guess maybe my version of that is wishing JOIN wouldn’t give me so much Z2 stuff when I’m only doing a handful of workouts a week. Definitely a different approach than TR there since I seem to recall being a lot more intensity (Sweet Spot) even when I was on a low volume plan with TR.
I just tried playing a bit with my availability, opening up monday removed my Sunday endurance workout and planned a strength workout on Monday. So it does plan a little bit ahead
A little insight appreciated. I started a one-day road program last year. Really pleased with my progress and the flexibility of the app. The road program ends May 3rd with a fondo as the goal ‘A’ event. Was wondering what happens in the app at its conclusion? Any suggestions going forward? Does the app “intelligently” suggest the next plan? I don’t have any more ‘A’ events for the year after May 3rd.
It doesn’t suggest a new plan, you need to think about your objectives.
I would start with thinking about what I would want to do/focus on and then see what plan might fit. Do you want to have fun with your current high fitness level and smash some KOMs or just some fun rides, focus on some B events, do the type of riding you enjoy the most, take a break and start building again, etc.
What do you have in mind?
I’m kind of in the same boat as my A event is next week and next one isn’t until September. I haven’t decided yet, but probably going with ”Improve Long Climbs” as I have a cycling trip coming up where that type of fitness might be useful, and I haven’t done a lot of steady longer efforts so it’s fun to switch things up.
On another note the work-rest ratio isn’t always fixed to three-one as some might think. Got this today when pressing the ”Why this rest day?” button:
Based on your current fitness level you should train for a maximum of 4 consecutive days in a row. At this point, you have been working out for 4 days. You should take some time to recover. It’s not the workout that makes you better, but it’s the rest afterwards. Without taking sufficient rest, training has no effect. This way we keep the balance between rest and working out.
Thats a good time to reflect yourself. Where are you strong? Where are you weak? Are you a good climber? How about your aerobic fitness? Could you improve sprinting?
Take your worst ability and push them to the next level. Based on this you could choose your next plan in Join.
I am planning on a Century in September but it really is just a group ride. It could be a hard do-your-best time ride; or, if someone on the group is struggling, just assisting them through (this is what happened last year). Maintaining present fitness might be a good goal rather than another strong build. I will decide after my ‘A’. ride.
I am planning on a Century in September but it really is just a group ride. It could be a hard do-your-best time ride; or, if someone on the group is struggling, just assisting them through (this is what happened last year). Maintaining present fitness might be a good goal rather than another strong build. I will decide after my ‘A’. ride.
I really like the LSRF plan for those times. It’s just a mix of different things to keep you training, but with no specific focus. As a result, I don’t feel any pressure to not move things around or replace one ride with another, etc., but keep my fitness.
