Which training apps are adaptive?

Hi All,
Making my return to indoor training now the UK winter is here. Looking at all the different apps available to use, but wondered if any (particularly TR) are adaptive and will take into account the miles i do commuting (usually 100 or so miles per week). I.e. will they ammend whatever training plan im on depending on my training load/fatigue.

Cheers in advance

Richard

Adaptive Training does not take into account load or fatigue at this time.

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I’ll just slide in with a JOIN is adaptive and we’ve got a thread over here: JOIN cycling app

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JOIN does that and it is also much more flexible in the hours and days that you want to train. The workouts are also better suited to do outdoors (no necessity to strictly follow the structure of the workout, JOIN encourages you to fit the workout into your route and do the intervals where you can do them not when the timer says you should do them )

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Yep, one more in favor of JOIN here. I’ve at least tinkered with pretty much every AI-based app (TR, Spoked, Athletica.ai, Zihi, others I can’t even remember the name of), and JOIN is solidly the best in terms of giving you good workouts and balancing training load with real life responsibilities.

For riding outdoors, as someone else said, you can mostly just remember them. For something like “2x30 Tempo,” just hit the lap button and keep an eye on NP or avg power and you’re good. The app will give you a compliance score and adjust accordingly.

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I’d say Join and Humango are the most progressive when it comes at adapting the training (rather than just the workout) The breakaway and Xert are in there to some degree, Garmin Connet recommended workouts (rather than their training plans) is fairly good at changing workout because of other factors

I only spent a short time looking at athletica.ai, can’t remember what I thought as it was in the middle of my season but there is a thread about it somewhere in the forum

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Athletica.ai will adapt future workouts based on what you do in your commute. Adapts to both indoor and outdoor workouts.

An accurate answer but rather a sad situation, I think, contributing to what I sense as the somewhat downbeat forum mood music w.r.t TR. And while I’d much prefer it to be otherwise, it’s not obvious to me that the improvements trailed a couple of weeks back will be sufficient to materially improve things, and move TR forwards to fully adaptive plans. :thinking:

Here the preview is in german, but now fully support Englisch/French and Italien:

Personally I think TR over sold the AI/ML aspect of their system, BUT be careful of getting to wrapped up in the technology used, the point of focus should be does the training work or not

My name (former) name appears a lot in the Join thread, I really like Humango, but would I have found works for me is two really hard workouts and the rest being Zone 2, V02 every 10 … blah blah blah, but any AI is going to override that

I’m not saying that AI doesn’t have it’s place (for job security I hope it does), just AI is a tool to reach the objective, and makings sure that objective is the correct one, is more important than tools used to get their (to some degree)

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I feel kind of “bad” to “complain” about TR on their own forum, BUT, there’s no sense to sell something called Adaptive Trainings Plan when it doesn’t account outdoor workouts, activities, free rides.

It’s a INDOOR adaptive plan. If you did a 500k ride outdoor, doesn’t matter.

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Can’t argue with any of that.

We are in the era of AI hype, so everyone that’s either pretending to / planning to / actually applying it is overhyping it. It’s just what happens when the latest thing comes along. I’m from a tech background but am in investment markets, so I’ve seen this movie before! I can’t convict TR on that front - for me it’s more the narrow (simplistic) way in which, up to now, they’ve gone about implementing the adaptability, which remains heavily constrained by the default plan templates (advancing you through PLs within each "energy system) and its origins as an indoor training tool vs a more holistic approach that better fits with how people want a tool like this to work.

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having done adaptive training for an entire base-build-specialty cycle and was underwhelmed by the results, I have become a major skeptic of any adaptive systems. As far as I’m aware (and I can be corrected if I’m wrong), I’m not sure anything can, for example, identify any plateaus and provide blocks to overcome those plateaus. I know of coaches who take into account TTE and if TTE is getting maxed out know to prescribe vo2 blocks. I think any system is beholden to the logic that is programmed, a human touch is, in my opinion, still something that people need and i don’t see that going away in the immediate future

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I agree - I’m very fond of TR, and despite my constructive criticism I’m rooting for AT to evolve into a more fully rounded implementation over time.

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100%

I’d add the problem with focus on hitting the numbers and getting FTP bumps as a real thing.

Take a look at the forum, people want to complete suggested workouts at any cost. Then “look, my ftp went up, I’m almost as strong as Pogacar”, when the reality is way different. It’s quite common see pro athletes with “modest” numbers winning races. It’s not about your FTP, but how you manage a race, group ride, whatever.

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  • That’s not entirely accurate. If people do actual outside workouts that adhere reasonably well to the prescription, those are included in the AT setup at present. So it can go beyond just INDOOR workouts.

  • It’s the “unstructured rides” (TR’s verbiage) that are not accounted for in the present state of AT.

All that known, TR clearly doesn’t handle what the OP had as interest while other apps do.

  • It would seem best to not beat that same “TR isn’t really adaptive” horse which distracts from other apps that may be a solution for the OP or others. We have plenty of topics focusing on TR AT where those discussions can continue.
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Guilty as charged, your honour. :person_raising_hand:

Not trying to point fingers, just aiming to keep the topic on target and productive.

That’s all well and good, but a human coach (even the cheapest) would be 4x any of the apps. I wouldn’t guarantee all coaches will pick up a plateau and prescribe a block to “break” it either. At least not without your suggestion.

As Chad noted, the OP is after a training app type system, presumably cost is a part of that.

I for one found an actual coach wasn’t worth the money at all.

Probably worth considering as well that no adaptive system or coach can give you the kind of feedback your legs give you every minute of every day. While adaptive training does a great job of adapting to the data it receives, and Train Now does take unstructured rides into account, none of that can adjust for the fact that you’re coming down with the flu, just had a huge stress filled week at work, or your tricky knee picked today to give yuo problems.
Like GPS navigation, a training prescription only goes so far. At some point, you have to evaluate your own readiness to train and override the training schedule when appropriate. Sunday’s group ride turned into a 4 hour hammer fest? Do you really need TR (or anything else) to tell you that Monday morning’s stretch Vo2Max workout might need to bump back to Tuesday?
I’m certainly eager for PL 2.0 to get here, but even if that’s everything I’m hoping for, I think I’ll still have to occasionally override training because no software package or coach will ever know as much about my body as I feel every minute of every day.

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