It’s time for a change [TR Vo2 control]

I think it could be something with your setup. Here is a link to Baird +6 that I did a couple weeks ago. Every 90 second interval was within 7 watts of target, most were within 3 watts.

Are you referring to the average power for the interval shown at the end of the interval. If so, it takes some time for the trainer to go from 50% of FTP to whatever 120% of FTP. I don’t think you would want it to be instant because it would be very harsh. Given that, the shorter the interval, aka VO2, that average will be skewed down because that represents a larger percentage of the interval. It may only take 3-4 seconds, but it’s still a significant number if the interval is only 30 seconds long. And this will never be higher than the target as you say because you are always starting from a lower number.

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Figured I’d add a screenshot of brasted from yesterday. These are short 30s intervals and that’s more than enough time for a a gen1 neo to dial in the correct resistance. I think I’m geared at 46/15 or so.

You can see I often have a bit of spike on the initial ramp-up as I try to maintain cadence (but fail) through the initial increase. So the resistance slightly overshoots, and as I get my cadence back up the power goes slightly high before a very small resistance decrease puts me in line. 5 rpms either way is enough to pretty radically alter the power you’re putting out, necessitating the ERG to tweak the resistance on you.

The pathological case here is the “ERG spiral of death”, where your cadence is constantly slowing and ultimately the torque required to turn the pedals exceeds your ability to keep going.

Depending on your trainer you maybe find a high or low gear gives you slightly more flexibility with your cadence before the ERG decides to intervene.

It seems you are quite quick to attribute blame to TrainerRoad, and it isn’t clear whether the fault actually lies with them. You do not give a lot of important information here:

  • What trainer do you use? Different trainers react very differently in Erg mode, and the fault may actually lie with your trainer. (TrainerRoad uses a common protocol to tell the trainer to switch the resistance to x watt. But holding that wattage is the responsibility of your trainer.
  • What gearing do you use? (It is recommended that you use a lower gear, e. g. that you are in your small chain ring and in the middle to lower end of your cassette.)
  • Do you use power match?
  • Are you able to hit the power targets?

And you should post a link or two to recent VO2max workouts.

As I said before and is clear it’s a powermatch issue. When developing a system it’s always important to consider the top variables so that the system works properly. They look like they have done this now on the PC as they recognized a problem. And as I’ve said multiple times by now I’ll just wait for that to show up to iOS

I get you’re frustrated with the problem you’re having but (a) don’t take it out on members of the forum with personal attacks, and (b) if you actually want help, then show the rides where you HAVE been having the problem so people - who are actually trying to help - can take a look.

Otherwise, send an email to Trainer Road support and come back to the forum when you’ve adjusted your attitude a little.

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I’m not sure where you think this extremely unpleasant behaviour is going to get you.

I also can’t see any major issue on any of your rides.

I encourage everyone on the thread to stop engaging and let him rage in impotent solitude.

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I appreciate you being a voice of reason, we are all forever grateful

Dude…

What is your problem? Honestly, there are 20+ replies in the topic of people trying to understand your problem and help you and in all honesty your attitude sucks. Maybe the attitude adjustment should be on your side.

I suggest you take a stab at reading the comments… people are asking for more information to understand the problem. What is your power meter? what is your trainer? show us a ride?
You haven’t responded to any of those comments. So people tried getting you help by looking at your profile and rides… they picked the wrong one and then you go in the attack mode.

It just seems to me that you are not looking for help. I agree wait for IOS power match if you want. If you don’t then don’t but honestly, I dont see you trying to get help to fix the issue (whether it is your side or TR side)…

@mcneese.chad, perhaps it is time to close this topic and refer him to TR support.

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Why don’t you go to another app with a better powermatch than trainerroad? And if you can tell me which app that is I’d love to hear all about it :roll_eyes:

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Good one. Just because it’s a good solution doesn’t mean it can’t be improved or doesn’t need pointed out. I like the powermatch, but it’s not perfect, again as they already know on the PC side but still time for a change. It’s not a free platform so not unreasonable to ask for improvements.

Yea we get it. You’re right and everyone else is wrong. You can stop reading here.

For anyone else who’s actually curious as to the mechanics of what’s going on, electronic trainers don’t work in a closed loop with the app. The TR app sends a power target number to the trainer, and that’s it. It’s “fire and forget”. The trainer has its own internal closed loop using feedback to adjust resistance, but the app is not part of that loop. The app gets power and cadence numbers but only for recording purposes.

Delay in resistance adjustment works both ways. If a trainer like the Tacx Neo behaves in such a way that an interval starts 1 second early, it will also end 1 second early. This can affect the final readout of the interval, but that doesn’t mean you didn’t hit your target power and target duration.

Also, all trainers ramp up at different levels. Even if TR instructs the trainer to hit 400 watts, the trainer itself will force a gradual ramp up. So even if you hit the 400 watt target, the average is going to be less due to the initial ramp up.

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I kept reading…I hope that’s okay, and that you’re not a tree as I guess I’m going to “bark” again :money_mouth_face:

Even with all you said I still think that this should be accounted for from TR. If you introduce a system to balance power meters with trainers and what you posted is a known thing, then it can be accounted for…maybe not easily, but still fixed or enhanced…

As was stated, I think a ticket submitted to TrainerRoad support may get you the type of interaction you are looking for. I’m 100% sure they aren’t going to engage in troubleshooting on the forum and they would likely be the only folks who could diagnose your problem in this case.

I believe you are accurate when describing ERG mode WITHOUT powermatch.

I think once you have powermatch… there has to be a feedback loop with the app. My understanding of the system is that TR receives signal from your Powermeter and compares that to the interval. For example, you are supposed to be doing 200W and the Powermeter says you are doing 180. TR then sends a command to the Trainer saying increase resistance by X amount. Then you powermeter goes up to lets say 205W (due to the increase resistance of the trainer). After a Y amount of time (I think its 5 seconds or so), then TR sends a signal to the Trainer to decrease power by Z ammount to try to get you back to 200W and maybe they nailed it or maybe the powermeter reports 199W. Hence the whole process is a seeking mission between Powermeter, Trainer and TrainerRoad.
It would be an accurate system if cadence and fatigue didnt play into it. However, realistically small changes in cadence (as small as 1-2RPM) can cause a major change in Watts at high wattage… hence the V02max intervals seem way less accurate.

I think that is how it works… I would be open to correction if I am wrong.

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This topic is temporarily closed for at least 4 hours due to a large number of community flags.

Hey! I’m sorry you’re having some trouble! This definitely sounds like something the support team can help you with, they’re pros at isolating irregular power readings.
While every user has a different setup, it will help to include in your inquiry the Operating System you’re using, your devices and trainer information, and let them know the most recent ride that you had trouble!
You can email support@trainerroad.com, or write in via our contact page: ‘TrainerRoad Support - Submit a Request’ [Click]. They look forward to helping you out. :metal:

A friendly reminder to all of our Forum users, let’s keep our Forum Rules in mind, specifically:

  1. Be excellent to one another
  2. Attack the idea, not the person.
    Thanks, all!
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This topic was automatically opened after 4 hours.

Exactly! If for whatever reason you are doing this in erg mode and you are missing your target, turn off erg mode and dial it in using resistance mode.

To debug your problem you really need to tell us what trainer and power meter you are using. Not all trainers are created equal and e. g. CycleOps/Saris trainers react more quickly than, say, most Elite trainers — even their top-end models. TrainerRoad tries to anticipate the different lags (i. e. the time it takes for the trainer to make a significant change in resistance).

Moreover, gearing can make a big difference, and if you use erg mode the recommendation is that you are in the small chain ring and in a lower gear. That way your trainer has an easier time to regulate the resistance.