🎉 🎉 🎉 Introducing Adaptive Training! 🎉 🎉 🎉

I do think after reading the SS Progression thread, that there’s merit in having VO2 Build, SS Build, Threshold Build as options for Build phase.

AT has been perfect for me so far. I’m bumping up to some pretty daunting looking threshold workouts though so it’ll be interesting to see, if I have a struggle at some point, how AT will then manage the load/progression.

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For what it’s worth, I’m not talking about base being too easy in my case (I’m in build), it’s the fact that the system seemed to always make things easier when I set workouts as hard / very hard.

My faulty RPE meter perhaps, but it’s rare that even an “easy” workout feels easy to me. I’m not one of these riders that gets a endorphin boost from training, so they all feel pretty miserable to me.

Yeah, that is part of what sparked the large discussion based on the Pass/Success survey responses.

I refined the info from Ivy to try to get something that pulled her info into a partial “check list” where you can compare the TR based info and maybe pick the “correct” response despite our different experience and scales. Not claiming this is perfect, but some of the clarified info (especially the interval related stuff, shown as underlined) has helped me pick answers since that discussion.

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Support got back to me, I’ll digest it properly when I am awake, but the latest version of AT does seem to be taking account of all workouts behind the scenes but isn’t displaying the results consistently on the calendar. Which is good to know. From the ride I done tonight it looks like future rides are displaying correctly and it’s just historic rides that are a bit hit or miss on the calendar and if they are all hits behind the scenes I consider it a success :+1:

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20 posts were merged into an existing topic: AT: Easy vs Moderate vs Hard vs … [Pass / Success Survey Responses]

I’ve been basically following Chad’s table, it’s quite a handy way of looking at it.

To the above posters who are concerned about AT only prescribing easy workouts, the reductive example where AT just provides Lazy Mountain -1 to ensure compliance is obviously not how AT works - it only prescribes adaptations within the boundaries of the goals for that day (threshold, VO2 etc). The plans have an initial progression rate, if you find it too easy it increases the progression rate, and vice versa if you find it too hard. N=1, that works exactly as I anticipated, and it is categorically not too easy!

Earlier in the last block I ranked some threshold ones easy and it significantly bumped the difficulty. My PLs did start off a bit low in some areas when I first got on in May (personally, that was sweetspot/threshold), but selecting a couple of harder alternatives at the start evened it out pretty quickly. After that I was actually finding it too hard in the last block, so AT backed the progression off a bit, whereas just into this block I have been finding them a bit too easy (I guess after the rest week etc) so AT has bumped the future ones up. It’s basically been performing as expected from my perspective w.r.t. indoor workouts.

Specifically in this block I found the early VO2 ones a bit too easy (i.e., Cape Range which is basically 4x5 at 106% but with a 30s recovery in the middle of each 5 min) and my HR was nowhere near what I’d normally associate with VO2. I ranked it as such and now the later workouts look a lot more VO2-y.

What I found in Build especially is that in the old builds there used to be a couple of workouts which were absolutely killer, and several times I effectively abandoned my plan during build. Whereas this time round, I am now into Specialty with some nice gains (I have been setting season, 2021 and all-time power PRs this week and last!).

New functionality for linking outdoor rides looks like it will be a good help especially for the Z2 ones that I like to do outside. In future, when AT can finally work with any power trace, I expect I will be more likely to go out with a set of goals in mind (i.e., hit these 3 climbs at threshold), and have AT deal with it rather than mess around trying to find roads to follow the workouts exactly - something which is quite hard from where I live.

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That was the other annoyance, I went into the FTP test with already degraded levels (after a one week taper, an event week and a week of recovery), and then after an FTP increase the system basically reduced all my levels to 1.

Has taken me a solid month and a half to try and work out what my levels really are, and I’m still not there on a couple of zones (sweet spot specifically). I definitely wont be doing another FTP test any time soon, I’d rather just get to level 10 in sweet spot again and then start increasing the difficulty, at least until I’m pushing 10 on either threshold or VO2max.

Just sharing, I’m in HIM LV and AT adapted my swim workouts for the first time. Hopefully this is a good sign that us triathletes will be getting a little more attention. Happy to see updates to swim workouts, and hopefully run workouts follow.

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Not sure if this is a bug.

I use the web based calendar, my OS (and machine) are too old to use the desktop app, everything is outdoors at the moment so not using the app on the iPad either.

After a workout I refresh the page and I get adaptations. Just got back from a ride and I accepted them for example. However at this point I haven’t completed the survey so AT is missing my input. If I then open up the workout and fill out the survey then no further adaptations are offered. So using the web page as the view on AT isn’t acting as we’ve been told it should.

Please check in with support about that: support@trainerroad.com.

Thanks in advance!

So, is it unreasonable to expect that 6 months is a little bit on the long side for a product to be in beta? Thanks for the second class status, guys, from everyone who is still waiting patiently.

Yup, did exactly this as well. Otherwise the workouts would have been way too easy, as a slight FTP bump moved all my progression levels down to near 1. I think the progression level drop with an FTP bump is way too extreme (at least what I experienced), so hopefully this will be fixed.

my first AT video is over 1000 views! kind of crazy. Although the dropoff in view numbers is pretty dramatic thereafter lol

As for actual AT, I’m being dumb this week with the filler SSB2 workouts before CX specialty, before the week I was 3.7 sweet spot, and today I’m at 7.2 lol I’ve got a 7.3 suggestion for the weekend but I may go off script again and see what a reasonable stretch is!

There is no reason to take this personally, or as some sort of slight, for those not already in the beta. This is testing, aimed at finding and fixing bugs. Entry into an unstable product (that has shown numerous errors over these many months) is not a “reward” in the sense that some seem to think.

I have had to submit multiple bugs, deal with many identified by others which lead to improvisation, deliberate ignorance of AT and what it wanted to do to my plan, and other stuff that is far from optimal.

Essentially, this has been more than a little work for many of the AT users, and not the pure excellent performance we typically associate with TR products and services. It’s a beta test after all, not a golden ticket, that entails a lot of sub-optimal use.

As I’ve said before, it’s likely that being “overlooked” by this beta is actually a good thing for many users. They are likely better served not accessing it until the greater parts of issues are handled and corrected.

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I think a lot of folks have this fear that they’re missing out on this amazing new type of training. Don’t get me wrong, I really like AT, but if we’re being honest, I don’t necessarily have dramatic outcomes that I think many imagine prior to getting on AT. I’ve got a lot of consistency and I haven’t been failing some tougher workouts that are in line with my progression levels, but with a little trial and error, folks can get themselves on a progression using the workout levels. I’ve done base and build, I haven’t changed my FTP at all, but I certainly feel like I’m consistent on short power workouts that are CX specific. The plan structure is the same as any off the shelf plan but more catered to the workouts I’ve accomplished.

So yeah, I don’t think people should feel neglected or overlooked, there’s a lot already with TR that they can use to achieve similar results

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My point is, maaybe they rushed this into beta a little too quickly, with maaybe a little too much fanfare, and maaybe one might interpret this rush to beta as a (panicky?) response to…<fill in the blank as you see fit, but let’s just say it might just be a certain youtuber who is currently pretty high up in the gravel racing food chain>.

Not saying all this is true, but an impartial :neutral_face: observer might interpret it that way.

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for me, it wasn’t rushed, it works perfectly well for me and I haven’t had any hiccups, I’ve done SSB HV and short power build HV with it. I know the wahoo outside workouts thing has been a pain for those users, but as someone who does a lot of inside and a fair number of outdoor stuff with my gamin, it’s been a flawless experience

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Yeah, and I don’t comment on that aspect (timing, release, marketing, etc.). I don’t have enough info to make anything more than guesses or personal observations.

I only commented on the fact that plenty of people are acting put off from “exclusion”, and I think they are missing the reality of the situation.

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@IvyAudrain or anyone,

I didn’t get PL credit for my ride earlier today which I cut short because TR just started losing the ability to control my Stages SB20, and besides the power going all over the place, the workout kept flipping between running / paused (I have pedal to start enabled). Is this as expected? Or should I have gotten credit, especially as I got through almost all of the intervals.

Screen Shot 2021-08-12 at 11.44.03 AM

Your account is private, so the link is dead for everyone (other than TR reps?).

Hard to say much from the pic, but that seem like it might result in a “stalled” PL result to me. Cut short and power all over the place. Your answer to the survey probably matters too (not mentioned).