LOL, I am guilty “creature of habit” as well. My exploration into trainer motion has a give and take where I spent TONS of time trying and failing with stuff in the beginning. After getting the original E-Flex, I knew it was good but open for improvement based on my prior rocker testing.
After getting that 1.0 mod done, I rode it for a looong time before making the effort to improve it with the 2.0 version. I pushed right into a 3.0 version idea since I found pro’s and con’s immediately upon building and using the 2.0 one. But I have hesitated to build the new one mainly from time demand.
Other than that exploration, I tend to just get to a point where my various solutions “work” and run with them until I see a clear place to improve (which usually starts with annoyance from something )
Did you use your home-made front section / rear section connector? Or where the front and rear sections decoupled like the units are shipped?
If you tried the front and rear decoupled, how easy was it to get the front unit in exactly the “right” spot / keep it there? I found with the previous front unit, even sitting on a rubber tile floor, that the front “migrated” over time
InsideRide shipped me just the front section only. I used my existing rear section and left the two sections totally separated. The "bridge I made is fully integrated into my modded front section, so it’s not easy to use with the new section from IR.
Yup, totally decoupled / separate. At present, the front is reasonably secure in my current location. I did get it to “float” a bit during one hard sprint effort, but that is likely down to poor form on my part.
I am also on a floor that is not perfectly level, so I tend to get some amount of creep even with my bridged setup. In that case, the entire combo slides a bit “downhill” despite the sticky pads under the supports.
I am planning to try using a trainer mat as a next step with the separated new section. I suspect this might stop the movement I have, similar to the stability I had in my previous location with carpeting.
As a current e-flex owner, I’d have interest in seeing a video (InsideRide said they don’t have one yet) and knowing if there any upgrade/trade-in options for v1 owners. I’ve reached out to InsideRide to inquire…
Wondering if it’s worth the upgrade. I’m definitely interested!
I am happy to shoot some video this week. I have plans for a full review, but I may see if i can at least get a quick side by side to show the different motion.
A “Rocker Plate” is a device used to add one or more motion (degree of freedom) to an otherwise rigid bike & trainer combo. Most designs sit on the floor, and then support the bike, trainer and rider on top of them. The rocker plate has mechanisms (simple or complex) that allow motion for the rigid trainer bike and rider combo.
Why use a Rocker Plate with your Rigid Trainer?
Comfort In & Out of the Saddle
The small side movement of the saddle, even when seated, helps relieve pressure on the sit bones and soft tissue.
The added rocking motion encourages standing because it feels more free than rigid trainers which can lead to more frequent breaks between seated efforts.
When you have a bike that is perfectly comfortable outside, and then leads to problems when ridden inside, I feel it is important to look at what is different. When you do, there are two key differences.
Lack of wind resistance on the body riding inside. That is a difference that I find because you end up with slightly more weight on the hands and arms, because you don’t have the wind pushing your upper body back.
To compensate for that, I recommend that people raise the front axle about 1"-2" [25mm-50mm] higher than the rear axle. This shifts the weight slightly back onto the saddle and off the hands and arms.
A bike mounted into a typical trainer ends up being very fixed and rigid in position. This can lead to excessive loading on the sit bones on the saddle because there is no shift in the demand on the muscles and tissue around them.
The non-equipment solution is to introduce standing breaks into your riding. Anything from every 5 to 10 minutes is common. These breaks can be for anything from 10 seconds or pedal strokes, up to minutes at a time if desired (for saddle relief directly or other training reasons).
The equipment solution I recommend is adding motion to the trainer setup. The Kinetic Rock and Roll trainer was my inspiration. But I made a simple double plate stand with a hinge that allowed me to mount a rigid trainer and turn it into a rocking trainer. These are called “Rocker Plates”.
Core & Upper Body Use
With softer leveling spring settings, it requires more engagement from the core and upper body to ride level and maintain a smooth pedal stroke.
This is true for seated and standing efforts, when compared to rigid trainers.
More Standing Pedaling Motion Freedom
Standing pedaling on a rigid trainer is awkward and not at all like riding a bike outside.
On a Rocker Plate, the bike & trainer are more free to lean to both sides. This can allow the rider to move in ways that are less awkward than on a rigid trainer.
Frame Stress
Unproven by testing and data, but Rocker Plates are likely to reduce stress on frame members since they allow float and likely reduced side-loading to the frame members.
@mcneese.chad I’ve seen you mention that you’re testing a version 2 of the InsideRide E-Motion system. If you’re able to share, do you know when it might be released to the public? Thinking about upgrading my inside training setup with the winter fast approaching.
I don’t have “official” info, but I think they are essentially ready to sell the new version. From what I understand, it will cost more than the original version. They plan to offer both versions at their respective price points, and let buyers select which one they want based on budget or motion preference.
I haven’t spoken with Larry for a few weeks, so you might want to shoot them an email to see if they are ready to offer them for sale. Or I can check with him if you’d like.
On a related note, I emailed Larry at InsideRide earlier this week, and they are planning to support the JetBlack Volt / Zwift Hub but no timeframe yet.
I spoke with him about the Hub/Volt on the day Z made their initial debut. I thought it was a slam dunk consideration since it should be a mounting setup similar to what they already do for the Kickr Core. There will be some changes needed, but simple for Larry & crew.
That trainer will land in quite a few homes over time, so there is another good potential user base for the E-Flex. People can get a full motion setup and decent trainer for around $1,000 USD which is a great setup for the price IMO.
AFAIK, they still only sell in the US, not internationally. I know someone elsewhere mentioned considering discussion with IR about importing to the UK IIRC, but I have no real info there other than my poor memory.
As mentioned above, I will shoot some video to show the real differences in leaning & steering motion between the two designs. For anyone willing to read a lot, here are my reviews of the new and original units. I go into great detail on what I disliked about the leaning & steering action in the 1.0 Orig review. These critiques were effectively addressed and resolved with the new E-Flex Plus front end.
In short, I am still experimenting with my own variation of the E-Flex front end, but I would be quite happy to stick with the E-Flex Plus front end, as I have been doing for the months of testing before now.
It is quite good and hits on all the basic goals I have for a trainer motion system.
I highly recommend it for consideration by anyone looking to add motion to a Wahoo Kickr or Core trainer.
If they add support for the Zwift Hub & JetBlack Volt (like Larry said he is considering), it will be open to even more current and future trainer users.
ETA: I think IR plans to offer the just the E-Flex Plus front end as a separate purchase for those that already have the original unit and just want the new front section. But I don’t see that as an option on the site yet.
Sounds pretty great. Can you get that correct “bike leans left when pushing with the right foot” action while standing/sprinting? This is what I was looking for when I preordered the Rockr Axis, but as of last month it hadn’t shipped and I canceled it, figuring I’d order it later if I still want motion.
Yes, but this is maybe a loaded question that you didn’t mean to be loaded
TL;DR: The new E-Flex Plus allows for proper lean-pedal timing… when setup & ridden properly.
When it comes to lean-pedal timing, it is a result of 2 key aspects:
Rocker Plate / Trainer Motion System with sufficiently light / soft leveling spring forces.
The original E-Flex has somewhat medium level force, but it is possible to “ride it right” with proper lean-pedal timing. Noting that, it is also possible to ride it wrong as demonstrated by many rider use videos (see #2 below).
The new E-Flex Plus allows adjustment of the leveling spring force from very firm to very soft. I use the full soft setting and it is nearly identical to the super light leveling force I have used for years. The adjustment range is sufficient to offer great support for new riders, and loose for crazies like me.
Generally speaking, the proper lean-pedal timing is easier and more natural to apply when the leveling spring force is very light. This is covered well by Zwift Insider.
Assuming proper rocker setup per #1 above, the super important (and too often overlooked aspect) is the rider.
It is possible to ride even a well adjusted rocker plate the wrong way, if the rider is “lazy” and not actively controlling the system. By lazy, I mean someone that is relying on the system to “do the work” vs them having to operate it.
When we see the wrong lean-pedal timing, it is because the rider is applying a large downward force on the pedals on the way to the bottom of the stroke, while keeping to light and passive hold of the handlebars. If you did this while riding outside, you’d fall over to the side with the downward pedal.
But outside we naturally compensate with an opposing force at the handlebars that counteracts the pedal force. It is the simple act of “leverage” where the wheels are essentially the fulcrum with the foot and hands as the inputs on the lever.
In order to reduce that negative lean-pedal timing and get the positive lean-pedal timing, the rider MUST apply the proper force and direction to the handlebars in time with the pedaling. Sounds simple, but countless videos show people are just not applying it inside. They get away with it because the system doesn’t fall over, but I assure you that you would crash quickly if we used this approach outside.
Summary: Set your leveling spring force relatively light and actually RIDE the trainer motion system with control.
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