Please let this be true.
All I want is my kickr to behave like the old wheel on kinetic rock n roll dumb trainer behaved. Please let this be true
Could it be some kind of rocker plate, or similar, that attaches to the current trainers?
Seems far fetched to release a brand new trainer just to get the rocking?
I assumed so at first too, but then “it looks pretty normal, except for this part” followed by “it looks like a bit more in the splits” leads me to think this is an integrated system.
Sure could be some separate accessory vs integrated to a trainer. We simply don’t know at this time and will learn tomorrow.
Not sure it is more far fetched than them offering the entirely unique ROLLR with a high price and super narrow use case? That trainer has some decent functionality, but is widely panned for the bulky size that limited travel options (usual benefit of fork mount rollers like the Feedback Sport Omnium) while also requiring a power meter for decent use prior to the firmware update the eliminated that need looong after it was released. It is a product still searching for relevance beyond a handful of users, which I feel is reflected in the current “sale” price that I suspect may become the standard for it over time.
Considering the relative stagnation that we’ve seen in trainer developlent in the past 3-5 years with minimal new features (and downswings with poor quality that was totally counterintuitive in terms of lifecycle and product stability), this could be the next frontier for trainer evolution. It’s no secret that some amount of motion is superior to the fully-rigid approach that was assumed to be “best” for decades of trainer designs (save the Kinetic Rock & Roll series that kicked this idea into the forefront long ago). We’ve seen other makers work towards this motion direction in similar or greater steps, like Elite has done several version over the years with the Justo showing their most recent effort that is a more active version of feet like the Wahoo Axis.
That said, I do think some level of trainer integration is likely with this product. It may well be something that could be retrofit to existing Kickr (not Core) trainers is my guess. They did that with the Axis Motion Feet by offering them as a replacement upgrade for all prior Kickrs. It remains to be seen what this actually is and if Wahoo has some retro-option for existing users.
Looks like a bit more L/R rock and a lot more fore/aft… so in other words an Inside Ride e-flex.
Will be interested to see what Wahoo’s specific implementation is.
Yeah, so hard to say from the deliberate wobble-shot video. I was not sure on fore-aft initially, but re-watches seem to show possibility of that with lean. One or two reactions seem to notice one direction immediately and then find the other after.
As a trainer motion proponent as well as someone who wants to see Wahoo rebound to it’s former glory, I am excited about this on multiple levels.
Could be cool, I was on an old kicker but moved to a Tacx with the motion plates on a rocker plate. Helps with fatigue a bit but people have reported loosing power when you jump into an interval and i can kind’f feel it a bit, but minor.
Be interesting to see if its a little more interactive rather than just a passive plate/roller
I get super uncomfortable on the trainer after `1.5 hours and thought that motion would be the solution to that. I have an E-Flex (but not the latest fork stand) and it’s helped some, but still get uncomfortable around the same duration, just moderately less so.
I’m always interested to see development in this area, and won’t consider going to a full up indoor bike due to their current lack of motion.
Are we talking purely about saddle comfort here, or something else / in addition to saddle issues?
Assuming you are comfortable on the same bike outside, are you mixing in standing efforts when on the E-Flex?
I ask because even with the motion that comes from an E-Flex (lean & fore-aft), it’s still not the same as riding outside unless you really lock yourself into a seated position for similar timeframe. Essentially, with the addition of motion, consider what other differences may be present between inside & outside with respect to comfort.
Could be this is more of a topic for the main rocker plate thread, but I am always curious about setups when motion doesn’t really make a more notable improvement.
Still need to see the details as to what exactly this does, along with pricing, but this generally is the direction Wahoo needed to go in order to drive new trainer sales.
A “better” unit was of no interest…they are already so accurate and can simulate a higher grade than you’ll ever come across that “better” is meaningless.
They needed to create a new experience…which this could provide. Will be interested to see the deets tomorrow.
- Clearly a new center section and center leg as key parts to the motion. The center leg in particular extends much further forward (and rearward?), likely for stability of F-A motion.
- Looks like a ‘rocker switch’ at the forward part of the new section. Might be an on/off control (or damping?) for fore-aft motion?
- Still has Axis Motion Feet, which may be part or all of the lean action? Could be the cap installed (loose on new, firm on old?), but new one looks like it might offer motion.
- Revised axle height adjustment with new spacing.
- Looks like an 11-34t cassette, if that is legit representative of the final unit (or options like Zwift)
It’s good to see. I was just messaging a mate yesterday wondering what Wahoo were up to. They’ve been very stagnant since the failure of the Rival watch really .
It’ll be interesting to see the pricing. It seems like there’s less of a need/market for the $3000 trainers when the $600-1000 ones are so good.
The price drop to the Core to $600 USD regular now covers that (along with Elite that dropped prices last week). The Kickr V6 bothered some with minor improvements and the $1300 price (up from $1200 V5 IIRC). Considering that this might replace the need for some rocker plate versions that run maybe $200-$800, I could see this new Kickr going for maybe $1500, but that is a wild guess. Perhaps we will see a 3-tier wheel-off trainer range from Wahoo:
- Core $600
- Kickr V5 or V6 $1000
- Kickr Move V7 $1500
I should clarify I was talking NZD.
Agree with your points.
When I bought my Direto X the RRP was ~1900 by memory, and the Tacx and Neo were both significantly more.
These days with the Jet Black, and the deals on the Elite, it’s hard to see the value in high end ones.
All this coming from someone who exclusively uses resistance mode and my own rocker plate though. I just want consistent feel and data.
Looks interesting. I upgraded last year from a 1st gen KICKR to V6 (w/ 20% off promo) to use with my existing E-Flex and I can’t see this making me regret that decision substantially since I already have a super nice unit with DirCon and motion, but if I didn’t previously own a E-Flex I definitely would have gone this route vs buying them separately.
I don’t want to derail this thread, but to your earlier questions I can ride multiple hours outdoors without discomfort, but naturally I do get up and move around a bit more outside and inside I tend to be sitting 99% of the time. 2 main culprits to that, first is that I ride ERG and getting out of saddle on ERG sucks IMO, so I could try riding ramp (which is a whole big other debate of course). More applicable to this discussion, I don’t particularly love the out of the saddle motion on an E-Flex due to it being ‘inverted’ to outdoor forces.
Speaking of fore aft motion though, that segues into the last big question with this unit, what will the front end look like? Floating fork stand? Some sort of wheel block that allows you to roll back and forth?
Good info on the inside vs outside, totally makes sense. I will leave that here, but feel free to PM or kick off in one of the other topics if you’d like to chat some more about that. The only thing I will add now is the consideration of shifting in ERG in order to make standing efforts more practical.
I have a couple thoughts:
Since the short teaser video seems to have people fixated on the rear, I suspect the front is just a regular wheel (more later) or a very basic support. Could be selective editing of course, but I sort of expect this to be a rear-only design.
The Kickr is axle height adjustable (still with the new one apparently), it’s possible they could be using a regular wheel on the ground, without a riser. Unlike the Neo Motion Plates adding to an already tall Neo (that requires a riser even for regular 700c use), the Kickr height could well address that initial issue. At most, I could see a low guide with “rails” to minimize wheel turning and keep alignment with the rear.
But from the rear-only fore-aft rockers I’ve seen, it can be possible to have this setup without a front wheel guide. As long as people aren’t massively turning the bars in use, it tracks pretty straight. It may be that a low-profile guide rail setup is cheap enough and worthwhile to include that we get one. I think the front will be minimal compared to the rear overall.
That said, the elephant in the room here could be Climb compatibility. We have many users with the full motion rocker plate and a Climb on top (which I used for a time as well) and it’s about as close to a simulator as I’ve seen (with the notable exception of some smart rollers that also had pitch control).