I just can't accept it!

TrainerRoad Software
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If you don’t mind, I thought I’d take a straw poll on how many of you just accept all/most of the adaptations the AI offers you?

I’m rubbish at it, I think my main issue is without a little understanding of why, I can’t blindly accept them.

I have two tough workouts a week, if I’ve overdone it a bit and mark a workout as very hard or all out, I will likely get some suggested adaptations. My first instinct is to try and protect the other hard work out by moving it, which isn’t an easy option when being faced with the multiple adaptations, as is normally the case.

Instead, I’m confronted with accepting a much easier workout, which I know is going to be a bit too easy, especially if I plan to move the session out a day or so.

More generally than this, if I’m not seeing a harder PL level on these tough workouts, I don’t want to accept them, as I can’t see how I’m going to improve if I make one of my two hard sessions easier.

I think the AI is trying to make sure I don’t blow up and I fully accept I have been prone to this in the past, but two hard workouts a week, padded with zone 2 for the rest, feels like a pretty sustainable schedule.

Does anybody else have the same issue as me, Or do you just do as the AI gods tell you?

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Reading your post, my impression is you don’t trust TR’s algorithms. In fact, if you had a human coach you don’t trust, you’d have the exact same issue.

This is a beginner’s mistake. I’ve done that as well when I started structured training with TR (back when the plans were static, i. e. long time ago). I’d want to be a completionist.

My former self and you are ignoring the long-term benefits of being consistent. One of the ways to stay consistent is to try not cook your legs.

What has helped me is learn more about structured training in general, the basic principles that all forms of structured training share, the value of rest periods, fatigue management, etc. Once I understood the purpose of the adaptations (or could guess it), I was fighting less with the AI and got better at training.

If you have pushed too hard for several workouts in a row, then the AI might want you to shed some fatigue, which takes time. To do that, you need to do easy workouts that are below your threshold of capability.

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Is there a reason why you haven’t changed your weekly schedule in the plan? If you are constantly moving a Thursday ride to say Friday then just move it permanently and then trust the machine learning. Otherwise how is the model supposed to know?

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Before joining TR, I did very briefly have a human coach, we’d speak once a week and he’d explain the logic of the workouts.

I realise this is the hard bit for TR to do. An AI assitant that gave some feedback might be the answer, I could say I’d rather move the session if possible and it could consider this.

I’ve been with TR since 2018, I might still be making beginner mistakes, but I’ve been making them for quite a while!

I agree I see the challange set and don’t like failing it by accepting easier wokouts, I guess this is how my brain works.

I’ve read, listened and watched a lot on structured training, I’m a believer in theory, but in reality always seem to think I know better. There is an argument that we should know ourselves better than the AI can.

I did get a yellow day today, but this is my usually day off, so not an issue. TR didn’t think my workout yesterday constituted a red day today, so it must have been within the bounds of what it deemed acceptable. My Thurs workout was being suggested as a 7.1 from an 8.9, so quite a big drop, I will likely settle for something inbetween.

My main concern is I’m in base and I’m not sure if the intended logic in base it to ideally continually see higher PL’s (as I’m trying to do) or if the idea is to not push too hard to soon and risk being overcooked come Feb/March.

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I had just been thinking this. Maybe Tues/Fri is a better shedule for the hard rides, rather than Tues/Thur or maybe Mon/Thur, although I am also guilty of having fun on a bike at the weekends too.

In fact, this might help me introduce some strength work, which is the other thing I do wrong.

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The logic has changed a bit :slight_smile: TrainerRoad now looks beyond just Workout Levels, factoring in your fitness, recent training, and overall trends to pick the right workout for you that day. So it’s not based heavily on what your PL’s or whether it’s trying to consistently raise them.

Instead, when a workout looks different from what you might expect based on past recommendations, it’s reflecting a broader view of your current fitness and capabilities. This supports consistent, high-quality training, and that’s exactly what helps you get faster.

Think of your training like climbing a staircase. The goal is to keep moving upward, but not every step needs to be taller than the last. TrainerRoad adjusts the step size based on what you’ve been doing lately, so you can keep progressing in a way that supports consistency and long-term growth. Sometimes this just means taking it easy today so you can hit your next hard workout with high quality. We always want to aim for quality than quantity.

All that said, I know sometimes it’s hard to just give in a trust the system, because it’s always calculating and adapting! haha. So it does require a bit a “faith and trust”, but you can always quickly see it’s working with fitness gains, feeling stronger, recovering faster…

Lastly, you are the captain of the boat so you are always free to accept the adaptations as you know your body best! You do, however, have the Training Approach tool to make the fatigue management recommendations a little more aggressive. Which sounds like, to your liking it may make the difference if you feel it’s the right call.

Tues/Thur or maybe Mon/Thur, although I am also guilty of having fun on a bike at the weekends too.

Yes you are! haha. Your weekends are by no means easy rides. Going on 3 hour weekend rides does take a toll when following it with another endurance ride, then a run the next, and then hopping to do a hard workout. Maybe try to prioritize the hard interval sessions and then adjust your other rides, runs and walks (and now strength work) in a way that you are rested the day prior to a hard interval.

Maybe something like this:
Monday: OFF
Tuesday: Hard Intervals (pair strength session after)
Wednesday: Easy spin, walk, or day off
Thursday: Hard Intervals (pair strength session after)
Friday: OFF
Saturday: fun 3 hour ride
Sunday: Endurance ride

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This is where IMHO you are wrong: you are not “failing workouts” when you are given easier workouts for reasons that support your training long-term. Structured training is a marathon, and any training plan should have very few workouts that push you to your absolute limit. Easier hard workouts are definitely a valuable tool in the box.

That’s a common phenomenon. I still struggle waiting long enough until I am completely recovered from an illness.

It is so easy to push too hard, especially in the first few weeks of a training plan. But being consistent is what gives you good results in the long run.

Try to view it this way: the downside of pushing too hard is severe whereas the downside of erring on the easier side and leaving some in reserve is typically very small (in that the performance differences will be small in case you could actually manage a harder training schedule).

There are so many ways your body may tell you, you are training too much. When I reviewed my last season, I noticed I was sick for about 3.5 months in total. Or you feel well the first hard workout of the week, ok-ish during the second and struggle mightily during the third.

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I’m with you, but also want to point out that what I think causes so much constant consternation is that when people say, “TR pushed me too hard and I burnt out”, we respond, “Why didn’t you listen to your body?” BUT AT THE SAME TIME, when people say, “I have been on a TR plan and followed it to a T and didn’t improve”, we say, “Why didn’t you listen to your body?” Its kind of an easy out that sounds a bit like, “no matter what you do, you did it wrong”, and I think this is why so many people want to just follow the plan exactly as prescribed. Because as soon as they start questioning things, it becomes their own fault when something goes awry.

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Thank you for taking the time to have a look, it’s kind of you. I expect you were exasperated looking at my calendar.

I will try harder at accepting the adaptations, even if they are easier (although I’m still going to split the difference for the 2nd hard workout I have moved to Friday).

I tend to only be able to ride late afternoon/evenings during the week. This being the case I’m not sure I could manage a strength workout after.

I could potentially do strength training earlier in the day, or the next day, I just can’t be on the trainer before about 3pm.

How would you look to add strength in this scenario?

Many thanks.

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Thanks, that makes sense, I definitely pushed a bit too hard yesterday, but I don’t think this is the norm, I think my problem is more likely accumulated fatigue from doing other, easier stuff, because it’s fun.

I don’t want to stop the fun stuff, so maybe I have to accept the easier adaptations.

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That’s it. In my head I still blame the old plans for burning me out, although I was of course doing too much.

You get those periods when you are crushing the workouts, and I think this time I’m going to break through the plateau.

Two weeks later I can hardly throw a leg over the bike.

I’ve got better at this, but it’s still wanting to push myself, rather than taking it too easy, that I struggle with.

Time to rein it in a bit, but pushing my limits yesterday was fun!

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I don’t believe in doing two hard workouts a week in December. Or hard workouts at all. Maybe a little high intensity for fun, but then it’s not a “hard” workout.

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If you are trying to follow a plan, then yes, you should probably accept those plan adaptions. People panic when they see “too easy” of a workout thinking that they are not going to benefit from it, but you will. It’s not all or nothing.

I’m not following a plan (I won’t get onto details) so I will ignore plan adaptions. But I’m my own coach. TR doesn’t know what I’m doing outside the app. I’ll try and convince myself to start following the plan soon :rofl:

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You should be doing occasional intensity during base/winter. The Bent Ronnestad study showed this.

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I do. But they are not “hard” - I’m not worried about hitting my targets, not dreading them, and I’m not super fatigued after. High intensity is not the same as hard.

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Welcome :slight_smile:

In that case, then probably early in the day instead of the following day…

There are rules you can try to adhere to when adding strength training:

  • Try to pair your weight training within 12 hours of your intervals & preceding a rest/easy day. Ideally, you’ll do your cycling first, but if you can’t, just know that your riding will suffer since you’re training on pre-exhausted legs.
  • Try to adhere to an on/off schedule by following hard days with easy ones.
  • Try not to block your training. It’s typically far better to train then recover, train then recover, than to train & train then recover. Blocks can be productive, but they’re risky and best left for particular times of the year, and often enough, more advanced riders.

We also did a great podcast on this topic if you’d like to watch!

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This is the study.

The hit sessions here were either 6x5m or 5x6m in intensity zone 3 (3 zone model).

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Depends on your goals and circumstances. Like plenty of others, I have poor riding weather in my winter and better riding weather in spring and summer. My goals are leisure riding, particularly (my relative strength of) long-sustained climbing…

Given this, I focus my interval training across late-autumn and winter, performing all intervals indoors on the trainer away from the crappy weather. During this period I do 2 (sometimes 3) hard workouts per week, sometimes (like now) in a reverse periodized format. So, I’ve just completed a VO2max block, have commenced a short Threshold block, and will follow that with a Sweet Spot block providing specificity leading up to an overseas (hopefully sunny!) hilly cycling trip late Jan.

After that, I’ll probably schedule a similar short plan (reverse-periodized again leading up to a Sweet Spot progression block) to leave me in decent shape for sustained climbs come the spring.

So lots of hard workouts during winter “trainer season” for me! High intensity with low volume in winter (mostly indoors); lower intensity higher volume in spring/summer (outdoors, bar periodic sprinkles of intensity on the trainer).

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My “A” races are in March. My season has been over for a long time now.

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Bent Ronnestad is great, and I believe adding a small amount of intensity over winter does improve next season’s performance. But I think we’d need more studies to say that conclusively. That study only at 13 participants, and the improvement over 40k was 6% +/- 6.6% confidence interval (if I’m reading it right).