@BABEboSS I do the same as @Marko27 I hit about 80gm of oats with a banana and some sugar of coarse before my Saturday ride which is is usually around 90-100km (56 - 63miles) at a 34km/h (21m/h) pace
What body type are you mostly? Mesomorph, Endomorph or Ectomorph ?
No-one is truly all of one type, personally I’m probably 70% Endomorph, 20% Mesomorph, 10% Ectomorph which physically resembles tree trunk muscley legs, tooth pick arms, and a barrel chest with a belly. Fat sticks to me like shit to a blanket but I’ve found that a low/no carb diet works better for me than any other diet, fasted rides are good too and I have loads of energy.
That said, I’ve never tried a high carb diet, so I’m going to give it a go… I’m already 4 stone overweight, hope this isn’t going to make me 5 stone overweigh
Here is a fun test on this
ENDOMORPH: 13%
MESOMORPH: 75%
ECTOMORPH: 13%
Def want to be endomorph in cycling.
Can i just clarify something…
I recently bought a big pack of Dextrose/Maltodextrin 50:50, a pack of Fructose and some electrolyte powder in order to make some of my own fueling drink.
I mixed it roughly 30:15:1 into a smaller container for storage.
Is this mix suitable for 1-1:30 trainer sessions?
- someone above stated that fructose for shorter durations would not be helping?
- should i just stick to 45:1 (malto/dextro:electrolyte) for short sessions and then 30:15:1 for sessions longer than 2hrs?
Only real goal is to not drop intensity too much during really tough workouts. For easier/recovery workouts i probably will just sip water.
So an extra question for the Carb Crew™…
I saw a video Q&A with a nutritionist from EF Pro Cycling saying that for sessions below 90 minutes, you don’t need any fuel during the workout at all.
And while Asker J doesn’t go that far, his blog suggests that for 1-2 hours, 30g carbs / hour is sufficient.
So, is there an argument against this? That says we not only CAN have 60g/hour during 1-2 hour workouts, but SHOULD? Or is this only really necessary for early morning sessions, low on glycogen?
If your muscle glycogen is fully topped up, you should be able to make it through 90min workout, even a 60min VO2max workout. The main thing exogenous carbs might do during that timeframe is reduce perceived effort. So I guess that’s a vote for the 60/hr, if it helps you complete the workout and/or complete it at a higher quality, then go for it. You can always cut those extra calories in your off-bike diet.
That makes sense.
They do seem to say things like “You don’t need it” or “30g/hour is sufficient”, rather than “you shouldn’t”. Would be interesting to hear if anyone has a reason why it would be a bad idea, i.e. there was an active downside to fuelling a shorter session. Like it trains your brain to think it needs sugar to work? Something like that.
Yeah, regardless of whether fuelling is mostly before, during, or a mix, my calorie intake always matches my calorie output for the session so hopefully shouldn’t be a problem.
Maybe something to do with training your actual glycogen stores, if you’re always taking in exogenous carbs your body might have a tendency to shrink that storage capacity since it’s never being used. Then you have to rely more on that ingestable limit of ~90g/hr.
If you’re never doing races/rides more than 2 hours long it’s probably fine to do whatever you want.
I started this thread and now it sounds like I’m walking back on my shouty proclamation. I’m not; I still say slamming back a lot of carbs during a ride makes things much easier. Just a matter if it matches your goal.
That shows true strength 
. The ability to get to a better answer even if it’s different than your first answer. And the real reason you are going back and forth is because the answer is different for each scenario. And eventually a new study will come out that teaches us more and we’ll have to bend the answers again. Progress.
Welp…
Endomorph: 50%
Mesomorph: 25%
Ectomorph: 25%
As I understand it the downside is for longer events when 60 or even 90 grams an hour won’t be sufficient and you end up in a significant deficit. In these cases the more efficient you are without fuel the better. That’s not to say you shouldn’t fuel for these longer events, quite the contrary, but that you will rely on both systems the longer you ride
The way I, and I think a lot of people, deal with this is by fueling heavily on harder rides and fueling minimally, or not at all, on easier rides.
Today for instance I did 3.5 hours outside at an endurance pace - fasted for the first 90 minutes, then ate about 500 calories over the remaining 2 hours. Hard to get up and get going on an empty stomach, but I find it balances out the heavy fueling I do for harder rides
Agree with this - but I’m thinking more about fuelling for a short but intense workout, e.g a 1-hour vo2 session.
I seem to be mostly ectomorph never had it easy in the gym putting muscle on is almost impossible. Got the long body of the mesomorph
That was what I was getting at though - I think the potential downside of the fueling you are describing is you don’t cultivate that other system. Thus - as long as you mix in the low carb training on easier days you would be mitigating that downside.
All from my (relatively) uninformed position, but that’s how I think of it
Thank you for your response.
Yesterday I had 60km solo ride (27km/h - easy pace, nothing crazy without effort) and 3h before ride I had jasmine rice (120g dry)
1 banana (120g)
greek yoghurt (140g)
23Protein 126Carbs 2Fat 3Fiber
There’s yet another great podcast on Scientific Triathlon. High carb, low carb with Louis Burke. I’m constantly amazed at how many quality podcasts @Mikael_Eriksson manages to bring out. Louise Burke is one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to sports nutrition, so for anyone interested in this subject, it’s definitely worth a listen.
Thanks for this, will give it a listen. As per my question a little higher in the thread, I’m really keen on finding the right balance between fuelling workouts with carbs, and becoming overly dependent on them.
It’s something I’ve been working on for a long time and I think I manage to get it right 80% of the time. Without working with a nutritionist, its always going to be hard to know if you’re doing the right thing 100% of the time.
My advice would be to stick to the scientific evidence and try to be consistent with what you eat. The basic principles of sports nutrition haven’t changed for quite while. Get the basics right and don’t get lost in the details.
Thanks @Berggeiss. Also worth noting that since the time of our interview one of the follow-up Supernova studies has been replicated with similar results.
Also, from a practical point of view I 100% agree with what you said here:
I’ve been thinking a lot about this. Like you, my methods and opinions constantly evolve. I had a bit of a eureka moment today, thinking about whether short workouts should be fuelled.
What I realised was this. Your general food intake, and in particular the meal you have 2-4 hours before a ride or workout - that’s fuelling. The gels and energy drink you have on the bike - that’s refuelling.
Once I got that, things started to make more sense. Of course, if your glycogen stores are topped up by sensible pre-ride low-GI carb fuelling, you don’t need to chug energy drink in the first 30-60 minutes of the workout. But once that 30-60 minutes is past, you’re going to need to start replenishing the glycogen burned during it. And then so on and so on, until you finish the workout and you have a recovery drink for the final glycogen top-up.
Which means that for a 60 minute workout, you might indeed have no need for carbs during it. But then have a recovery drink after. Or for a hard 90 minute workout, you might have 45g carbs in a bottle from 45-90 minutes, then another 45g carbs post-ride. You’re getting your 60g/hour, but always refuelling.
Of course there are then secondary factors to consider. The intensity of workout might govern the type and the quantity of carbs you choose. An early-morning workout might require fuelling from the start if glycogen stores aren’t full, or to decrease RPE. But overall, the principle of using fast carbs to refuel from the work you’ve just done is one I can sensibly apply to both short and long workouts.
Don’t know if this resonates with anyone else. But it’s helped me make sense of carb timing and planning.