How to put out less power while still keeping up with group ride?

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TLDR: I kept up with the group, but at an output much higher than the other riders. Apart from spending a ton of money on a new bike what can I do to lower my avg power and still keep up?

With the warmer weather starting here in the northeast and my goal of completing a long 150mi ride (organized event) this year I have started doing some group rides. This past Saturday I participated in a 60mi group training ride. The ride started off with the 30 or so riders all grouped together and then was planned to start splitting up into different pace groups. Well, being a noob and riding towards the front, i must have missed the cue for when the breakoff started and ended up with the fast group. I completed the ride, and didn’t end up getting dropped, even did a few pulls at the front, but it was definitely a challenging ride.

Checking out the stats on Strava/TR after, I had averaged 219W. Looking at the other guys, who are much more experienced than me, they all averaged under 200 and seemed to have mean output of about 180-185W with one guy down at 173W. Excluding the few pulls in the front I did, I was on the wheel in front of me within a foot or two, and felt like I was definitely in the draft. It was a windy day, and you could feel it when out of the draft. I stayed in the drops about 75% of the ride and felt like i didn’t see the other guys really getting low at all except for on some of the downhills.

My bike isn’t a road bike, it’s a fairly inexpensive gravel bike that i have upgraded over the past few years, and now that i have slowly been becoming a roadie, i have slapped some 31mm Pirelli P7 Sports on. The bike is an aluminum frame bike, and as ridden probably weighs in at about 24lbs with water, small tool kit, pedals (weighs 21 without). I swapped out the original groupset with a Sram Force 2x (has an xplr cassette, 43/30 rings) that I pieced together. On the road i never get into the smaller chain ring. I am 5’7" and a lean 170lbs. I was probably one of the shortest/smaller riders and at the time felt bad for any of the guys trying to draft off me, clearly that didn’t matter for them though.

I am now on the fence thinking about buying an actual road bike… but from what i have read it doesn’t sound like dropping bike weight will really make that much difference, or will it? I read that you might get about 5W every 2.2lbs (1kg), so if i buy a 17lb bike, I would be saving ~4lbs, and getting what, 5-10W? I would still be putting out 25-30W more than the rest of the group.

Talk me off the ledge from spending a ton of money on a new bike. What am I doing wrong, or how I can improve as to not be putting out so much power for the same ride as others?

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Weight isn’t a significant issue. Some things to think about……

  • How is your position/fit on the bike - more road bike aero or upright?
  • Could definitely find some nicer rolling tires with better rolling resistance.
  • You mention that you were in the draft, but also call yourself a noob, so could probably improve some. Make sure you are always aware of where the wind is coming from. Are you cornering well and staying with the group?
  • Any bags or other items on that bike causing additional drag? Is your kit tight fitting and reasonably aero, anything flapping in the wind?

If you wanted to spend some money on reasonable upgrades that are likely to make a difference: Tires and spare set of aero wheels for that bike. Aero helmet. Good fitting kit. Bike fit.

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Google/ Road CC says

The Pirelli P7 Sport is a grippy, robust and dependable tyre that’s great for training and general riding – especially considering the price. It’s a little heavy and fairly slow to accelerate, though, and its slight sense of sluggishness never completely goes away.

So you could try some lighter and faster tyres, the Pzeros perhaps.

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You might also try keeping your hands on the hoods, but still getting low, as this is more aero (even if slightly) than riding in the drops.

Also: great job keeping up with the group!

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If you want to be more efficient, start with the easy stuff. Some of it will come with more experience and knowing how to hide a little better. First one is free. You mention being in the drops 75% of the ride. The drops are not a very aero position. Look up aero hoods vs drops. You are much better off having your hands on the hoods with your forearms parallel to the ground so they are out of the wind. If you are on a wheel, the drops are okay. But if you are in the wind at all, drops are not great.

Next ones are cheaper than a bike, but still cost money. Tight fitting kit, aero socks, aero helmet.

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I have seen ppl ride like that and have given it a shot, but it wasn’t very comfortable and was not sustainable for any significant amount of time. I could try angling my hoods up a bit maybe to relieve some pressure and make it more comfortable. I didn’t realize that this was a more aero position, i assumed that the drops were there to get aero.

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Assuming you are riding in the draft all the time, aero upgrades are of negligible value. Anything improving rolling resistance (tires, as mentioned before) or drivetrain efficiency (e.g. clean, well lubed chain) would be something to look at.

But another big factor is skill. Your average watt also depends a lot on how good you corner, how well you roll in the group, your cornering, …

Any time you break and speed up again while the rest of the group just kept rolling, your avg watts go up. If you think this might be an area of improvement, there are a lot of videos on YouTube how to work on these skills. Default solution being to actively pay attention to such things and also actively try to avoid pedaling wherever possible while staying in the group

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I consider myself as someone who is very frugal with my watts - years of racing has taught me this. You have to have fast tires - easily the first thing to do. Second would be clothing - make sure there is no flappy items. I would lump a decent aero road helmet into clothing also.

Next items are more tactical. Always know where the wind is coming from and make sure you are getting the best draft particularly in cross winds. Contrary to others, I think riding in the drops is better than trying to do flat arms when in a bunch - you have more control in the drops and you can stay low comfortably, so safer and more practical. I’m not sure how your watt/kg stack up to the others, but you you may benefit from sagging the climbs if they are short and the group is big enough. Start the climbs near the front and slowly slide back by the top, but don’t fall off. It should feel very smooth if done correctly. When/if you take turns, make sure you pull through without spiking power, fall back in line without spiking power. Anytime there are rollers and corners, anticipate where the momentum spots are by reducing or eliminating any braking. This can save a tonne over a long ride.

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All of the above . Let me add cadence to the mix. Too low and you might not be as smooth while climbing and accelerating out of corners. Thus more watts to get up to speed.

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The main thing a good road bike will do is have better aero. But, that’s a lot of money spent in something that’s probably a small benefit considering the other aero gains to likely have still on the table.

Several people mentioned tires, which are certainly important, but tire pressure is also important and free to optimize. Use the Silca tire pressure calculator for that.

Nobody mentioned what makes the most difference on big group rides: riding smoothly. If you watch your power during the ride, you will notice that your power is spiking to close gaps, accelerate from stops, surging when you’re on the front, etc. Most of those spikes can be smoothed out significantly by looking ahead, anticipating when the group is going to change speed, and trying to apply the power smoothly. If you get gapped try not to charge hard back on, ramp up the power just enough to catch on without having to brake when the gap closes. This is the single biggest factor in being able to hang on because every surge above threshold fatigues you way faster than staying below it.

Also, learn to stop pedaling anytime you’re gaining on someone or expect to have to brake soon. No point in pedaling up to the second that you’ll need to brake. Smooth is easy, easy is fast.

When you’re on the front, don’t accelerate just maintain speed. Your power will have to increase, but try to hold your speed within +/- 0.5 mph with quick glances at your computer. And keep those pulls short! It’s better to pull for shorter and contribute a few times than to do one hero pull and blow up.

You mentioned drafting and some people indirectly said it, but let me be blunt: drafting well is not easy and you’re probably not doing it well. First off, if it’s windy then the best position to draft is usually not directly behind the person in front of you because the wind is rarely hitting you straight on. You have to kind of average the speed and direction of the wind vs your speed and direction. So if the wind is 20mph hitting you from 30 degrees to the left and you’re going 20mph, then you’re hitting 40mph air that’s at a 15 degree angle. If you’re directly behind the rider in front of you, you’re not getting a good draft. If you ride behind and ~12” to the right of them then you’ll get a much better draft.

Your wheel should be 8-16” behind the rider ahead of you, with yours slightly to the side of theirs so that if something happens you can temporarily overlap their wheel or pass them on that side. This requires having some room on that side to ride in case you need to do that. This is a risky thing to do and requires being comfortable with riding smoothly in the group, being able to consistently hold your distance to the rider, and looking ahead to anticipate things they will react to. In short it’s an advanced skill. You’ll need to work up to riding that close.

All of this takes practice to develop, but it pays dividends. It can make the difference between hanging on for dear life and just getting a great workout.

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Interestingly, this video just popped up on the GCN YouTube channel. I have not watched it, so it might all be bunk, but perhaps it’s worth a watch:

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This was actually my first ride using an aero road helmet, i had been using my mtb helmet up until now. My kit - was wearing bib tights and not skin tight race long sleeve, but it wasn’t exactly club fit either. I think i was sagging in the climbs un-intentionally haha. I’ll keep it in mind for future rides though.

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Thank you all for the advice, it seems that what i am really lacking is experience riding in groups (and possibly just road experience in general). Usually when i get outside and ride alone I’m just pedaling 99% of the time not having to worry about how close i am to someone else or if I’m in the correct spot of the draft.

I tried to stay off the brakes during the group ride realizing that it would wreck my efficiency. I certainly noticed the effects of draft being not quite directly behind the guy in front of me, also saw how the others were keeping at an angle where traffic and road conditions permitted and tried to do the same. I’ll look into some lighter/faster tires as many have mentioned and try to find some drills or something to do. I will try to be more mindful of my cadence and try to be a bit more smooth in the future. Possibly riding with the slower group next time might help me to focus a bit more on those things. I guess i was just pretty blown away by how low their watts were compared to mine while keeping the same pace.

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Maybe you already have your answer but one trick I picked up is to let them blast up hills whilst you keep a steady/manageable output, then lead them on the flats. It’s a little bit of pride sacrificed but got rid of the stupendous numbers I had to put out holding wheels uphill.

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Are you able to compare your power output against a fellow rider’s and look across the full ride? Might give you a better idea of what is going on. Of course if you are a big rider trying to ride with smaller rider’s you are baturally going to need to put out more power.

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Draft better. It makes a big dif for me to be very close, in the drops, and in the correct left/right position considering the cross wind. If I can feel equal buffeting on my left and right arm, I know I’m centered in the draft.

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Im looking at your power, weight, and average speed. Something doesnt add up. Your weight / height is about the same as mine. When I average about 200 watts, my average speed will be around 20 - 21 mph, with my computer autonatically shut off below like 4 mph. Yours is showing 219 watts and average speed of 18.9. I have a friend who weighs about 40 lbs more than me and will need to average about 20 - 25 watts for than me for the same speed (riding side by side). At 219 average watts, you should have no problem hanging with most groups. If your at 220 watts, and everyone else is around 175 - 180, you would need to pull most of the time for that to be true, and likely everyone is complaining about how hard your pulling. Im also surprised to see a “noob” with an FTP of 302 watts, and not just crush the group ride, unless its a pretty high end group, but then again your avg speed would be > 20 to 21 mph.

So, something isn’t making sense.

Im wondering if your power meter is calibrated or reading correctly. Maybe your bottom bracket needs some maintenance, or wheel bearings, or chain is really dirty. Id check your equipment.

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I’d make sure you address the really simple stuff first.

Are you taller than everyone else in the group?

Were you wearing much looser clothing than everyone else?

Is your power meter calibrated the same as everyone else’s? There’s enough variability between power meter readings that they’re not 100% comparable to other riders. (I’ve had a few power meters over the years that over or under read by over 10%.)

How close were you drafting on this windy day compared to everyone else?

Are you using road slicks or something else?

Is it average power that’s higher, normalized power, or both?

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I have been training for about 15mos on TR, went from ~160W to 302W FTP in that time. I have always had naturally strong legs, I attribute it to the amount of skiing and mtbing i did when younger. Like i said I’m riding a gravel bike with road tires, this was my first ever road group ride, so yeah I’m a noob i think. I weighed myself this morning 168.8, haven’t grown vertically (disappointingly).

I have a single sided Favero MX power meter, i always hit calibrate when the Garmin prompts me to, it always reports back 0, i have compared the power to my kicker core, and they are about the same. I have made sure i have correct crank lengths in.

I was sort of surprised to see that the average speed was only 18.9, every time i looked down at the computer i felt it was reading 20+mph. This was supposed to be the 20+ group. It pauses automatically. Chain was freshly waxed, I’m pretty meticulous about maintenance, waxing every 150-200mi with Silca, basically whenever i start hearing any noise.

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I didn’t realize this was your FIRST EVER group ride. Likely your pack riding skills need some practice and beyond the obvious equipment things we have all pointed out, are going to be a source of a good deal of free speed.

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