That is not even remotely true, which is why large partnerships (multi member LLCs are taxed as partnerships, unless they elect corporate treatment) are a common thing.
I dunno, it seems like TR talks about structure differently than other companies. I’m a big fan of conducting experiments on myself. Some experiments take a long time. Pick a multi-month/season plan and see where you end up.
They tried to clarify this on the podcast, and you tried to elsewhere in your post…
The endurance is very important to do correctly, and should be considered structure. If you just go do 7 hour rides without structure your power is going to be bouncing all over the place. You have to do them with intention and with a defined structure. It isn’t intervals, but it is keeping NP:AP as close to 1:1 as you can within your endurance zone
I think this distinction is crucial - both for how you train and for what Keegan seemed to be trying to say. The structure is hugely important when you’re training like this, and honestly for those who can be that structured with the endurance rides it seems to be one of the best, most consistent ROI training methodologies. But to think of those long rides as lacking structure is where many fall down on this approach
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this is where TR causes confusion IMHO, because structure when I listened to the podcast was code for more intervals and less endurance.
And I agree with you, I’ve posted steady endurance rides on the forum for years now. Nearly all of them are mid to high endurance, with some low tempo at the end. Nearly all of them are 2+ hours. Longer ones are 3-4 hours. Thats what I got at this age, they require dedicated work both on and off the bike. And as you say, in my experience they deliver a strong ROI.
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IIRC Jonathan did attempt to clarify that the long rides weren’t done without structure and Keegan responded with something like ‘yeah its all endurance and I stop at most once’ and then they moved on
Agree there’s inconsistent language used here - its crystal clear to me that the endurance rides must be done with intention, but they left room open for interpretation.
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FWIW, I always interpret “structure” as “periodized” training.
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100 minutes of “structure” outside, 10 days ago:
.74 IF, average power of 194W, normalized power of 201W for a 1.04 VI. Every power spike is when I stood up.
You can’t control everything outside, so taking only the 85 minute steady portion:
its .74 IF with average of 198W and normalized of 200W for a 1.01 VI.
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Deep Fake Nate?
As you mentioned “structure” has also taken on the meaning of intervals or in some cases a training plan. I think the clarification was pretty clear… as uncomfortable as the moment was. A long ride within a certain range is a “structured” ride. Keegan has a training plan and is following it. That is structure by definition.
Why the quotes? You don’t think this is structure?
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Not when I was listening to the TR podcast. Googled “trainer road structured training” and found this definition:
When I was doing TR plans there was very little endurance work, except if I selected Traditional Base 1 and 2 which were not recommended. And IIRC it was generally (TB 1 in particular) lower intensity than the 66-79% endurance target that I now use. IIRC.
But now? I don’t call it structure very often, but yes, its structured around duration (minimum 2 hours) and a narrow band of intensity to make it challenging, generate a fair amount of load, but not enough fatigue to prevent doing 6+ hours a week of it, week after week after week after week after …
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I mean, again, it says progressively stressing your body.
Structured training appears to be best interpreted as, targeting specific energy systems in training under the overall principle of progressive overload. So you “structure” your progressive overload such that you focus on specific areas that you want to stress, recover and adapt better to as a consequence of training.
Unstructured training could still be following the principle of progressive overload but instead of targeting a specific system, you focus on an overall stress and adaptation. So an endurance ride could be “unstructured” in that it’s not targeting a specific system but its still working within the overall notion of progressive overload.
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Cool, so ppl don’t need to do 10 TR workouts anymore?
It did feel like a slightly uncomfortable attempt to pull the discussion back on brand.
I think it might have been better if they’d asked a more open clarifying question.
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From the article:
you need a minimum of 10 completed TrainerRoad indoor workouts…
Once you’ve completed these 10 workouts, AI FTP Detection will analyze and incorporate all indoor and outdoor rides with power data, whether or not they’re TrainerRoad workouts.
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Oh, ok…so it was a confusing/untrue statement. Having to do those workouts changes everything.
That definition seems to be spot on for endurance rides. You target a specific energy system and the progressive overload isn’t power in this case, but it’s duration.
They’ve multiple times blasted “endurance” rides with 1 hour of tempo etc.
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Nice that you pulled up the definition from the website, was fun to read what TR made out of it.
From the old school literature (books) structured training came as opposition to random training/exercising. So more on a macro level than at workout level, but it’s applicable too both.
For example, many people exercise by owning a bike, taking it for a spin when they feel like, without specific goals in mind. There’s no training plan. They may also do other sports, yoga, etcetc. Quite fit people eventually, but they don’t do structured training.
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I’m with Schmidt here, and TR always used “structure” this way imo; plan and workout, and not meaning intense intervals.
I’ve done TR endurance workouts since 2017.
And “structure” is less black and white when it comes to workout execution. So you might be planning at 10mins 200-230W and get 95% of your time in the right bracket, or you might only get 50% and yet still average the right power over the period. You might get different or sub-optimal adaptations from the less structured execution.
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