I don’t know about your age but your power and power/weight profile of year 1 and year 2 seem similar to mine. I have been hovering around 280-285, at 3.2 / 3.3 w/kg, for years, with a training regime that consisted of a short commute and long weekend rides, with some more mid-week riding from spring onwards.
Then the Covid lockdown forced me to train on the turbo. Just doing SS training consistently for 2 months, without a lot of structure and without thinking too much about recovery, upped the FTP to 307. The 20 watts don’t seem like a lot, but I had all but given up hope of ever improving. So yeah to consistency, even if you don’t follow the plan 100%, keeping the load and recovery even will help.
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To directly answer OP’s question, yeah I think people are born very strong but that everyone can make meaningful progress w training.
When I first rode at age 19, I did a 20 min test at 320w for an estimated ftp of 4w/kg (75kg). I had a background of weight lifting and running the 200/400m in highschool track. I got serious into cycling training in college (10hrs per wk avg) and quickly got to 340-350 ftp (maybe in a year). I got into cutting weight and had 5 w/kg at age 23-24 (71kg).
Honestly, I would not recommend trying to cut weight if you’re already lean just to push up your ftp. I was 6ft 165lb before I went down to 155-158. It wasn’t sustainable or enjoyable for me. People rationalize it, but it’s pretty much a mild (if not more serious) form of eating disorder and body dysmorphia. Ended up not cycling for 1-2 years from burnout and losing interest.
Fast forward now I’m 29, 165lb eating whatever I want, and I have ftp of about 360w (4.8w/kg). Still training 8-10hr/wk but with more intensity than mileage (no time w a 9-5 as opposed to college student lifestyle)
I think what beginner cyclists don’t understand is raw power is far more important that w/kg. Your 1, 3, and 5 min power will determine if you make the selection or not - even into cat 1. Very few amateur races (at least in US) have long enough climbs for a 5+w/kg to force the selection. But if you want to be competitive beyond cat 3 you really need to be somewhere in the mid to upper 4w/kg with high 1-5min power.
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Having changed things up a bit over the last 3 months, pretty much all Z2 and Tempo work (7-8 hours a week) I almost hit the 5wkg mark last night after a 20 minute FTP test.
Those numbers put me 4.91w/kg. I did feel that I left some on the table and could have added more with 5 minutes to go but its always a knife edge isnt it. Although I plan to drop away from proper structure I am going to do some sweetspot / threshold over the next month (combined with some Z racing) then test again in another 6 weeks to see the impact. I may even be able to drop a couple of pounds too.
I really do feel that doing Z2 and Tempo has made me much more efficient, I have never really gone through a proper base phase before, its been a nice change and I can see the benefits.
5 w/kg next!
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Yeah, gotta agree with a lot of points, especially the focus on W/kg being too high, when W/CdA will likely win most races.
In 2021, my A+ race will be a super mountainous stage race, where W/kg would actually come to play. However, even here FTP is just part of the picture. Many races are several hours long so being able to recover between hard efforts, and being able to pace yourself over long events might be a lot more important than just having 4, 5 or even 6 W/kg for an hour once…
My conclusion is, that W/CdA is important for almost all races, W/kg can be important in some races, but it should all be considered as part of a greater picture.
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5 W/Kg aspirant here.
Peak was around 4.5 late 2017 then my daughter made her appearance and it all fell apart. She’s 2.5 years old now and finally I’ve worked out a training schedule that seems to fit family life.
Sitting at a lowly 3.5 currently but hopeful for what 2021 will bring.
Im posting this to try to add some accountability for myself. I will check in and report back progress.
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Glad to hear you got some positive results with 7-8 hours of endurance and tempo. I’m hoping for some positive adaptations with similar weekly hours. Like you I have to admit after 15+ years of riding I’ve never once done proper base training. Looking forward to the results. I touched on 4.4 w/Kg last season so 5 isn’t completely out of the question with better consistency.
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Ha ha, that’s a nice joke mate, but what’s the real secret?
Did you do polarized or pyramidal? Were you 80/20 or 70/20/10 or 65/25/10?
Did you do 30/15 or long VO2Max? Did you do hard start intervals?
Did you do SS at 88% or at 90 or 94%?
Did you do Zone 2 rides at the bottom, the middle or at the higher end?
/Sarcasm off
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@KlemenSj ( This may seem a bit sad but I collate all of my data into a spreadsheet, and here it is ( the bottom set of data are my numbers from last week and each row above is the week prior))
I terms of training I am a fan of the polarized approach but don’t often do efforts under 2 minutes in duration ( Efforts ranging from 3 - 20 minutes, and 95 - 110% of FTP are my bread and butter )
I am also a fan of lots of Z2 work
Hope this helps
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^^ purple represents a season PR and green an all time PR ^^
I haven’t entered this weeks data yet either - as I have a long ride today
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Thank you for posting this @Charlie_Botterill, I was actually being sarcastic about some users here on forum who focus too much on that 1% edge and all the tiny little details instead of looking at the big picture and actually getting the 99% of the training done.
Like you mentioned, there is no magic bullet. It’s consistent structured work over a prolonged period of time.
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Was that an outdoor or indoor ride? If outdoor, I’m more astonished at your ability to have such a clean separation; when I try to ride polarized outdoors there’s inevitably a lot more messiness in the zones.
Both outdoors
One thing that I’ve been thinking about that I haven’t seen mentioned is genetics that plays into how tall you are and your ‘natural’ body composition tendency. I’d guess there is a sweet spot of height and natural body composition that balances high (enough) sustainable power vs weight / size.
Someone who is 6’5" / 90+kg is likely to generate above average absolute power, but getting the weight down or power crazy high to get to 5wkg is difficult. Someone who is very short would have the low height / weight but might have more problems building up sustainable power up based on their smaller muscles, blood volume, and other physical factors that go into it. There are some people who just will not be able to get to 5wkg no matter how hard they try even with optimal training / diet / rest. I’m not saying you said that, I don’t think you did, but it hasn’t been discussed here much.
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There is a reason that GC riders all look pretty similarly. 5’9 to 6’2, around 66-71kg
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Couldn’t agree more!!
I’ve always been a fairly lean and skinny person ( currently 64 - 66kg - 6ft/181cm - 19yrs old ) so the W/kg equation has always favoured me. But I know guys who would smoke me on the flat because of their larger frame, even though I “have a better W/KG”
Imagine if Ganna had though W/KG of Pogadjar though… Man that would be crazy
After yesterday’s long test and looking at the data, I’m stoked to check the 5w/kg box.
My weight fluctuates between 68 and 70kg (which is actually a little heavier than last year), I did 347w for 40’, WKO5 says 350mFTP and for training purposes I set my FTP to 345.
Here is the cliff notes, but much of this will be specific to me:
- Volume. More volume than I expected to be able to handle or think is normal. An average week right now is 14-16 hours and a low volume week is 10-12 hours. Oddly, I feel better with more work and more volume.
- Lots of long Z2 rides in the 3-5 hour range, mostly inside.
- Minimal anaerobic work. Maybe a sprinkling every few months max.
- Zero suprathreshold work that isn’t VO2 work (I never test or target the 10-20 minute range)
- Very very hard VO2 work (don’t ask, don’t want to get into it again…)
- More time in sweetspot/threshold > increasing power target. My coach prescribes a lot of mixed endurance and SST/threshold rides and they are an enjoyable way to drive TiZ in an adaptive way. This also works well for MTB since I can loop the same climb with some fun descending in between. One of my favorite rides is to ride from home to my favorite trail system, do 3x20 on the climb, descend in between efforts, then ride home.
Nutrition:
- Carbs. So. Many. Carbs. I feel like its my job to eat these days. On some of the longer endurance rides, I’m burning 3500-4500kj so it’s really hard to get enough calories in.
Does it feel different?
No. It felt really good for a few hours obviously, but then I was just looking at the next workout. There is no magical moment so if you don’t really enjoy the process of training, you aren’t going to suddenly be happy by hitting 5w/kg.
If I dip back below (which I’m sure I will during the natural ebb and flow of fitness), I won’t stress about it.
Edit: one more thing to add…if I have one piece of advice:
Figure out what your real FTP is in whatever manner you can get the best accuracy. It’s a huge ego hit if you’ve been estimating using a shorter test, but it makes your training way more fun, manageable, and sustainable. If you are using the 20 minute test, stop. A lot of the free tools out there estimate my FTP right now at like 365-370w and there is no way I’d be able to train with those zones.
When I switched from shorter tests to a longer test, my FTP dropped a good 25-30w. I did this in the middle of 2019 and went from 320w to 290w. It sucked for the first few weeks, but after that ego hit, it was all forward progress again.
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@stevemz Can you give some more details on the carb intake?
Base rides g/hr
Hard sessions g/hr
Recovery spins g/hg
Overall daily nutrition
Great work on getting to 5w/kg
I generally just eat to hunger cues. My one easy trick for base rides that are long is that if I start thinking about how much time I have left in the ride, I need to eat something. If I am not worried about how long the ride is, I’m eating enough.
Probably somewhere in the 60-80g per hour, plus a large carb meal before and large carb recovery drink. It’s tough to find the right mix of food and this is personal to everyone. I’m a big oatmeal guy for breakfast, with chia and flax, berries, honey, etc. Recovery drink is @ambermalika’s suggestion of gatorade powder and whey protein, which Alex Wild also uses. I do supplement with creatine in the recovery drink for a variety of reasons.
I’m about to get on the bike for a 3 hour hard session and adding it up, I probably have closer to 90g per hour, depending on how many carbs are in this delicious looking Cuban roll that I had leftover from last night 
Just electrolyte usually. I’ll have some protein with almond milk and bit of a snack after, but I don’t really eat anything if its an easy recovery spin.
If I am targeting race weight, it’s a lot of simple foods. English muffiins, eggs, broccoli, chicken, rice, etc. It’s easy to dial things in when you eat the same thing every day.
Right now, I’m not really too concerned about weight, so I just kind of eat what I feel like otherwise, while avoiding the non-nutritional foods. I have one beer a week on Sundays, rarely eat pastries, fries, etc.
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The only time I hit 5w/kg was through weight doping on Zwift. #truestory
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