How can I race cat 3/4?

Anybody else boggled by the statement that the “barrier to entry” for cycling [actually “bike race” per the OP] is too high… when coming from someone already partaking solidly in triathlon?

Forgot spending time & money to be decent at a single tricky sport… lets toss in two more sports for the heck of it :stuck_out_tongue:

This and other comments here are tripping my irony meter today.

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@Alen I think that the fact that there are several people in here 1) giving out constructive feedback and advice, and 2) urging you not to quit after just one shot speaks a lot to the attitude of many in the racing community. While it sucks that your first race experience wasn’t great, take some lessons learned from it and get back on the horse. For all the good experiences I’ve had racing, I’ve probably had just as many bad experiences (and I’ve only been doing this for 3 years).

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Pick something much longer. It’ll be more akin to your skillset/fitness and the other riders will ride more like a mass participation event, and be less inclined to race so hard from the gun, if finishing is the objective (like most mass participation run/Tri events).

One last FWIW… I’ve done a handful of races, and I’ve done a LOT of large and choose-your-difficulty-level club/shop rides ranging from 60 minutes to 8 hours. The club rides always break up into smaller groups, I can easily push beyond my limits, and they are a lot more social/fun than races. Point being, a good club or shop ride strikes the balance you seek IMHO. Unless of course @Alen you don’t have anything like that in your area.

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I think the bigger barrier to bike racing is the required risk tolerance. Especially in a yellow line road race it just comes down to “I’m willing to put myself in riskier positions for marginal advantages”. If you’re not willing to commit to that risk profile you back down and are a disadvantage. Other sports are trying to minimize injuries and bike racing looks at a 20 person crash and says “that’s bike racing”.

I like riding my bike fast and hard. I want to get stronger on it. But I don’t know that I can convince myself that seeing a 40cm gap in front of me means I should put my bike there. Or ride on the other side of rumble strips in a disappearing shoulder. Or dive bomb a corner at 30mph.

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Maybe try cyclocross this fall. Not being funny or snarky at all. But I think you could enjoy it. It’s a race, but way more of a solo effort of you against the course. There’s really no pack riding and not much aero benefit from drafting, so it’s pretty much just you racing. And from my experience, the atmosphere can’t be beat. Maybe different with Covid, but cross races are more laid back and the vibe is great. Races are short (<1hr) and you’ll have every experience level from people who take it seriously to newbies on mountain bikes and everything in between. Cross is actually what got me started in road racing. I was a little hesitant and scared to try racing, so a friend took me to a cross race and I had the most fun I’ve had as an adult. After a a season of cross I made my way to road. Cross is very beginner friendly IMO.

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It has to do with the nature of bike racing - the drafting effect drives the dynamics, contrary to running. Fondos are the in-between compromise.

Big, true - it’s the case with many other sports (try competitive speed skating…); too big, that’s another debate altogether.

I think the OP meant in in terms of the ability to enter an event and finish before everyone has left for home. As involved and complicated as triathlon is, it’s still mostly a “participation” sport, albeit an awfully involved one. Compared to a crit, for example, it’s not a “keep up or go home” sport.

Another option to consider might be gravel rides / races. Depends on the area and specific events, but many of them do a good job of covering many angles. There are top end riders looking to smash like a road race, a bunch of people looking to push themselves and see if they even finish, and then a crowd of people looking for something enjoyable that serves as an even better excuse to open a beer at the finish (if not before, as done in some races :stuck_out_tongue: )

Based on the comments of the OP, the current gravel scene has a great many parallels to what he seems to like in tri, and mentioned as desirable in roadie events.

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I will have to look. Just moved here over a year ago and I’ve been so busy with stuff, I didn’t even look into that. I’ll ask around.

Hmm. Not a bad thought! Does that mean I need a new bike :grinning:?!

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bike racing != cycling

The barriers to racing are high. Even the “novices” are fast, from what I gather. Same thing if you want to place in a triathlon, I’d imagine. But cycling? You just need a bike, helmet, and a place to ride.

Barriers to being a triathlete are higher than a cyclist (as you mention), but if you want to do well, then things level. Before this thread I never really appreciated this distinction between cycling and tri - the tri guys, from top to bottom, are all in the same event. I think it probably has some interesting implications in the tri vs bike racing cultures.

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I agree with @CaptainThunderpants and @mcneese.chad , Cross and Gravel are the answers here! And you only need one bike for both!

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For clarity, “cycling” was my wording via paraphrase, and not a direct quote from the OP, which I should have done.

So my paraphrasing was incorrect and potentially misleading. In any event, it still rings as funny to me in this context.

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tl;dr

As long as this is, I could write so much more. Alen’s comments really hit home for me with this realization that he’s coming from a tri background. I’m sure I’m projecting, but I get him a bit more now.

In short, everyone is talking past each other. It’s not his ego. He just doesn’t see that there is difference between his cycling strength in tri and bike racing, and he’s coming from a very accommodating environment in triathlon

I’ve been reading this thread, and the whole thing stinks. Alen has had a weird attitude about this from the get go, and the comments go back and forth between supportive and condescending.

I guess it’s time to throw in my 2c.

My sport path is getting close to Alen’s. I started out running, moved to tri, and this year I’m excited to get my ass handed to me in a local crit series. My own take is that my mindset seems different than Alen’s since I’ve abandoned tris and have been road riding for the last 2 years. I’m chomping at the bit for the race strategy component.

@mcneese.chad I think I can provide some context for the “barrier to entry” comment. He’s right. I have a feeling you’re hung on on the equipment, and logistics of race day, but that’s minor in the eyes of a newbie because they don’t futz with getting it “optimal”…

Signing up
If you’ve ever signed up for a 5k, you can figure out a tri. It’s the same process. Sure you get to buy a 1-day license, but that’s the only difference. There are no categories to make sense of. The only choice is the distance that you’re going to participate in. Much simpler and fairly clear.

Training
I would venture a guess that half the field at any triathlon is people there to complete it, not compete in it. Training for those folks is simply focused on not drowning and covering the distance. That also means that you’re going to finish in the top half of your field if you have any endurance skills to speak of.

Rules
There is effectively one rule in triathlon. Don’t draft. If you’re a triathlete that’s not great on a bike you won’t know what this means, and it will never occur to you to do it. So make that, there are no rules in triathlon if you are a newbie.

The Event
Have you ever run a turkey trot 5k? You know how everyone is happy at the start and just having a good time? Triathlons are like that at the end. In fact, it seems like the further back you are, the more excited the crowd is for you. “Competitors” LOVE to congratulate their competition. It’s almost a sport in itself.

Path to Success
So now you’ve done a tri, finished, and you love it. Success comes quickly and easily, especially if you keep to local races. You start training, become a mediocre swimmer, get a TR plan and develop a decent bike engine, and your run is pretty good. All of a sudden you’re at or near the top of your age group in every small town tri in existence (this puts you on the podium) where you would never sniff a podium in a similar 5k/road race/swimming event. You’re good at something. It’s addicting. I think this may be what happened to Alen. He’s likely a decent triathlete.

The Trick (in my opinion)
This is where I likely piss off some triathletes.

Unless you’re really dedicated, you’re probably not good. You’re likely a mediocre endurance athlete that just practices triathlons, and the pool of triathletes is so small you can get on the podium because the bulk of the field isn’t racing, they’re completing.

Carrying that “success” into bike racing seems to be Alen’s problem. He thinks since he can compete in triathlon that cycling shouldn’t be that hard. There’s an adage in triathlon that’s something like “now I can be mediocre in 3 things instead of 1”. I don’t think he realized how mediocre his cycling is since he saw some success in triathlon.

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A few thoughts:

Yeah, road racing is lonely as a privateer. People come, race, and go home. It’s not a beer festival afterwards like a mountain bike race or gravel race.

I think a more natural progression would be:

Find a local bike club
Do the fast group rides (you’ll quickly know where you stack up in the group)
Do local/cheap evening training crits
Go do a race with your bike club friends
Go do a Gran Fondo with the same group
Ride/train with the group

That would be a lot more fun.

My only other advice is to be prepared to be dropped for at least the first 5-10-20 races. Eventually you figure it out. It takes repeated practice.

When I started, I just did the Wednesday night training races. I got dropped at first and then figured those out. Then I did higher profile races and got dropped again. And then I figured those out. Then I tried harder races, like a crit with a short sharp hill that requires a small chainring shift. I got dropped the first time but finally figured it out. Then I did road races with a long climb. That turned out to never be my game as I was a sprinter and not a climber.

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I do agree with @Alen on some points (not jumping up categories) but the entry to crit racing is hard, and it sucks. I’d love to race more but again paying a bunch of cash to come last just doesn’t sit well with the budgetary committee.

There are entry races where I live (SW UK) and I’ve done one and if I’m being brutally honest it was pointless. That day had heaving crit races and heaving cross races for both men’s, women’s and junior’s fields. The novice “taster” race had 8 which was mixed men/women.

I did get my participation medal for coming third though!

However, that being said I don’t actually know how you’d increase the numbers since racing is a small field, to begin with without diluting other races plus the majority of folks are fast enough (not me but hey ho) to at least survive cat 4.

My answer is to look at gravel racing, hill climbs and endurance things but might not work for everyone.

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But why can’t it be a festive event? Why is everyone so serious? Throw up a tent, have some pizza and some beer and let everyone sit and get to know each other and discuss the race.

While they are at it, get some colorful duct tape and put some big arrows on the ground where people are supposed to turn instead of a tiny sign in the bushes. There is a lot going on in the races and obscure signs are easily missed, especially when you don’t have the benefit of a marshal or support truck leading the way. How sad is it that a guy who got dropped can’t even tell if he is on the course for at least 10-15 miles. People go the wrong way in run/tri races but you know it within a few hundred yds.

Nobody in run tri world for example goes to join a race and is told, “you know what? Go do some bike shop and run shop rides and runs. Take some lessons, do some fondos, and sign up to TR. when you’re ready, come over to the race.” No matter what your skill level is, there is a bubble you can compete in. That’s the same in Tennis which I also do. There is a level of competition for everyone.

One other thing, on Saturday, when I asked to be downgraded, I asked to be downgraded to masters 40+ since I’m 45. The lady said “no you don’t want to do that. That race is even faster than the 3/4 race. The winner of the M40 race could prob win the P/1/2 race. He wins it every year.” I mean WTH?!! Why is he not in the P/1/2 race? If he doesn’t have the points then why is he not in the 3/4 race?

You aren’t the only one being entertained by the irony in this thread. I’m trying to be a better person than my natural inclinations direct me to be, so I will leave it at that.

Edit: I think the the big barriers to entry in road / crit racing are fitness, group riding skills, comfort riding in a big group and less on the equipment / money side. The dynamic of a ‘participation’ event like a Tri (for most people), Fondo / Century, even cyclocross / mtb, is different because to ‘be part of the race’ in a RR / crit one has to have the fitness, skills and comfort to hang with and finish with the pack. The ‘staying with the group’ aspect isn’t as important for the participation events.

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Seriously…you just want to keep having people cater to YOUR wants and needs vs. understanding the nature of the events you chose to participate in.

It is clear you don’t want to race bikes…you want to have a big group ride that occasionally goes kinda fast. Which is fine…go do a Gran Fondo or a gravel race and get what you want…but stop complaining that you didn’t understand the event or categories or any other excuse you have laid out. You were warned not to do 3/4’s and YOU did it anyway. You were given advice about hydration for a race that long and YOU ran out of water after an hour. You “downgraded” to Masters instead of the open 4/5 race which is the category YOU were told you should race in the first place. YOU didn’t properly check your equipment before the TT.

But no…all this is someone else’s fault.

Unreal.

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