I’ve never heard the TR guys suggest users shouldn’t do skills (in fact they push it quite hard for CX and MTB in particular). It’s posters/ users/ potential users wanting to see progression levels change on (perhaps unrealistic) expectations of the RPE of the unstructured workouts.
fwiw the best thing that prepared me for racing, apart from having the power to survive from using TR, was the skills sessions I did with the club coaches. Far more valuable than club rides, and even club handicap races.
The problem for me is that because I have done structured training, I have reaped the benefits and that is therefore tempting me back. But I love our group rides, they are fast and furious and fun. So I am left wanting both things at the same time.
My prediction is that eventually, I think Tr will incorporate group rides so we will be able to analyze them in a better way with progression levels. And we will be able to clearly see which zones we need to work on and therefore add structure by doing indoor workouts when we feel it’s necessary. I’d happily pay for that analysis.
Maybe if you are a cat 1 rider, group rides have little benefit, But that does not mean in any way they are the junk food of training rides, that is nonsense. There is so much to obviously gain from them training-wise, it is just not as focussed as structured.
Well I guess we’ll see when they work it, and again notwithstanding it’s already taken into account for AI FTP.
I just looked at a club race group spin, and a handicap race, where I got my head kicked in both times. 45-50% was still tempo or lower surrounding the surges. Firstly, I can see why it’s complicated to analyse, and secondly I’d still be surprised if the bulk of progression wasn’t at tempo/ endurance.
This is the heart of the issue for some TR users. TR works great no doubt but some users forget that with TR they are using a tool that manages a training program. But because the tool is the product, TR’s training methodology is optimized to fit the tool and is not the 100% optimized training program you can get when all variables are free (e.g. Outside rides are allowed, off bike strength work is part of the program, etc). If you listen to what TR says, they tell you that but some people don’t listen.
Just because the TR system works best if you do 1 hour indoor workouts during the week and slightly longer indoor, but almost never more than 2 hours, workouts on Saturday and Sunday does not mean that that is the absolute best way to train or that you can not achieve the same results doing different workouts/rides.
Yo!
Lots of good discussion happening on this thread about how Workout Levels V2 will account for your group rides, and how TrainerRoad (and you as athletes) will use that information.
I’m just here to confirm that yes, WLV2 will effectively interpret the work you’re doing in these group rides to impact your Progression Levels and potential adaptations. We’re really excited about this feature!
@aydraper is right on the money that the functionality for unstructured outside rides, like your group rides, is already being considered when your AI FTP Detection is being calculated.
They’re also correct that some of you may be disappointed when you get your AT results from those rides in that your Progression Levels for the ride may not be as high as your RPE would suggest, as you generally spend less productive time in each training zone on these rides than you think. That said, I just want to preemptively offer some input/reassurance that this is totally okay and expected for your group rides to serve different purposes that your structured training. They can feel tough for sure, but don’t necessarily equate to high Progression Level changes, or even a high IF/TSS in relation to your structured workouts.
Even RACE group rides that are absolutely beneficial for race strategy practice and to work on repeatability don’t have the same training impacts as a controlled workouts; don’t be alarmed when you see those differences in ‘credit’, this is a long-known understanding about group rides.
Let me know if you have any questions about this feature ahead of time, we’re stoked to get this out to you all!
Hey @IvyAudrain can you offer any updates on WLV2? I think its in a private beta now, right? has it been working alright for those people so far, or do you guys need to start over at square one? Basically, are you guys finding big unexpected bugs or normal sized bugs?
Thanks! Stoked to be here and help out.
For Workout Levels V2, we don’t have any updates right now, but it’s a main priority and our team is working hard on it! I’ll be sure to keep everyone posted as things continue to progress.
So am I doing it wrong reading their blog posts about adding volume? Also reading the weekly notes on swapping endurance rides for the Sunday sweet spot workouts?
Sure TrainerRoad isn’t for everyone but every other training app isn’t either. Not all of us have the luxury to afford a $150-$200 a month coach. Hence blog posts, forum topics and hundreds of podcasts with viewer questions.
I wasn’t saying TR is bad, (its not). My point was that some people who use TR get so obsessed with the precision of training inside the TR app and plan that they end up convincing themselves that any deviation is a sacrilege. By its nature TR necessarily leaves out a few aspects of cycling (mostly involving things you can only do outside). Depending on your goals and what you are training for, you can be missing a bit of valuable training if you dogmatically stick to the letter of your TR plan without any deviation.
I understand and hopefully I didn’t come off wrong, I don’t comment often. I have to give credit where credit is due. I’ve learned a lot about training from reading joe friels books, podcasts, blogs and many guys like yourself on this forum.
Luckily TrainerRoad has been working for me. @Crosshair I agree at some point focus should be on skills and outdoor group riding a pace line. I definitely try to listen to my body when it comes to fatigue. Some days I’ll cut workouts short or swap for endurance. It’s hard to do sometimes.
I’d actually suggest the opposite - it’s people that don’t use it/ former users/ have come up with a better n=1 for them, view TR as rigid. Most people do what suits them.
yes the AI FTP is great but its not enough for a monthly subscription, I can still do Garmin FTP tests regularly if I wanted to. But I guess it is at least an indicator that outdoor rides are gonna be incorporated.
