Group ride behavior (traffic light)

Absolutely :slight_smile:

The debate is when there are ~10 of you, going at 20mph+ approaching a green light. You can make it. Some of you do make it.

But lights are yellow (= stop) or even red (= stop) before the whole group is through.

It’s never safe to slam on the brakes from that speed in a group. You have to act like one vehicle about the size of a bus and continue.

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Then just do an Idaho stop.

Come to a complete stop. Look both ways. Then proceed once safe to do so.

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I had a situation over the weekend where the cars being too cautious were the ones causing the problem with the sensors. I had the bike trailer on (empty but I’m sure they couldn’t tell) so I think the first car in line was being too safe and stayed several car lengths back. They were not getting that the reason we sat 5 light cycles and I finally just had to go when it was safe was because they would not move up and trigger the light.

Had there been no cars I would have gone sooner, but I was trying to NOT be that cyclist running a red light.

It’s people behaving badly regardless of the vehicle.

For me it’s : Respect the rules of the road, hold your line, be predictable and be assertive when you need to.

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My club had a big group ride. It helped that club officers would step up once or twice a year and lay down the law. Or, they’d speak up on the ride itself. If the ride is just an unaffiliated pick up ride, I’m not sure how you lay down the law.

I’m still posting from some temporary lights they put up in 2013 right now.

Rules are rules. :man_shrugging:t2:

My kids will understand when they become parents.

———

True absolutists know that the rules in the UK include deciding the safest option for yourself when conditions demand it.

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How do you absolutists manage traffic lights that are operated and triggered by electromagnets placed into the road to detect the arrival of cars?

I’ve had pretty good luck with putting my bike on its side, drive-side down (holding the handlebars, not putting the bike all the way to the ground but getting it fairly close to the sensors). Generally there’s enough metal in the drivetrain, even on my carbon bike, to trip the sensor if it’s close enough. It doesn’t work all the time, but it is pretty successful.

If that doesn’t work, as someone else mentioned, I’ll wait one or two cycles and then proceed when it’s safe. This is the same rule as for cars and non-functional traffic lights. But I would only do that with good line-of-sight for oncoming cars. If I didn’t have good visibility, I’d probably make my way to the crosswalk and use that (if it exists), or else I would probably just avoid that intersection like the plague.

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That seems like a bit of a leap in logic……there is a massive difference between saying “you should stop for red lights” to thinking that means you have to sit there until it turns green.

Pretty sure everyone recognizes there are circumstances where you will have to proceed against a red light when it is safe to do so. That doesn’t negate the idea that you should stop first.

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I try to do the same thing. I have one route I take which has a long straightaway with multiple intersections. But 2 lights are there only to allow residents of their apartment buildings to get out when it’s busy. But 7am on weekends this stretch is extremely dead so it’s annoying if the light turns red. If no cars are around I just slow and roll through. If cars are around I just wait at the red light like they do

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I’m not a big fan of larger group rides. Under 10 would be my preference. There are some larger rides around me and for the reasons you state they are sticklers about following rules. They are constantly posting on their fb about making it clear people need to follow the rules and about issues that have come up

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I had a cop try to bait me at such a light who clearly wanted to ticket me. This was on a commute well before dawn with no one around except me and the cop. The cop was coming the opposite direction. The I waited at the light, expecting the cop to come to the intersection to trigger the light. The cop instead stopped 20 feet back so they wouldn’t trigger it. Not being an idiot, I went over to the corner and used the crosswalk signal (which I would have normally done at that intersection).

But no, some people clearly do not believe that there are circumstances where you have to go through a red light. Not if it allows them to write a ticket.

Fortunately my state changed the law and now allows cyclists to treat red lights as stop signs.

To go to the main topic of conversation, my bike groups are (fortunately) good and stop for red lights. Despite the law allowing us to treat red lights as stop signs, I don’t think I’ve even been in a group that road through a red light after stopping. Probably for the best since it could take a while for a group to get through. I think that particularly law is meant for individual cyclists.

But we aren’t talking about jackwagon cops in this scenario….we are talking about other cyclists.

Here’s an example, with video. I was on the front when the group got to a light. It turned yellow before we got to it. Read this, watch the video, and tell me what you would have done.

Absolutely would have stopped….if you hear the lead rider call out “stopping”, you stop.

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This has been addressed several times in this thread.

Yeah, and besides, on the group rides I’ve been on, if the group gets split (say, at a traffic light), the front group waits.

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A loop via Edale and Mam Nick?

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I’d have done what you did and called stopping. I’d have waited for green. Then gone and caught up the rest of the group. What I did after that would depend on how well I knew the group. If it was a group I rode with regularly and had any kind of influence within I’d have had a proper chat either during or after the ride about the principles of safe group riding. If it was a group I didn’t know well and didn’t feel I had any ability to change how they rode then I wouldn’t catch them up and I wouldn’t ride with them again. The riders behind you were riding along chatting away in a bubble and not paying attention. As it happened it was “just” a light with nothing else coming. But if that had been an emergency stop situation with a hazard you’d seen where you actually all needed to stop or somebody was going to get hurt, there would have been a pile up. Personally I don’t want to ride around with ~15 people like that behind me!

The riders on the front have the best view of what’s ahead, they’re in charge, if they say you’re stopping you’re stopping. If you stopped or slammed on the brakes and they disagree with your decision they talk to you about it afterwards, they don’t just decide to do their own thing. The bigger the group, the bigger the imperative to all be on the same page around how to ride, and the bigger the need to err on the side of caution. In a 6 man group the riders at the back still have a pretty good idea what’s happening and can directly hear any calls from the front. When there’s 15+ riders those at the back have almost no idea what’s happening at the front and have to rely on calls being passed back and reacting to what the wheel in front of them does.

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Well….thanks for admitting you are trolling, I guess? :man_shrugging:

No there isn’t. Red lights mean stop, so you stop and then assess the situation.

Not necessarily. Rolling red lights is the law here for cyclists.