"Fueling the work" without stuffing my face

Nutrition
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I think “fueling the work” has two aspects: what you eat on the bike and what you eat off the bike. In my experience, fueling during workouts would really help me keep my eating under control after the workout. I tried workout out fasted for Z2 workouts, but I was ravenous afterwards.

On the bike it is very hard to consume the calories you expend. I take in about 400–420 kCal/h (or about 90–100 g carbs per h). Our calorie expenditures seem quite similar, for me a typical workout requires about 700 kCal/h (Z2)–1,200 kCal/h (sweet spot, etc.). You’ll have a hard time to replenish the calories you expend working out on the bike. You are already doing that, so this will to lessen food cravings right after a workout. 100 g per hour are at the upper end of what you can consume during the bike.

The second aspect is eating habits off the bike, and without judging, it seems you have work to do here. I second/third what others have said here: avoid pre-processed foods, e. g. buy raw meat instead of sausages, avoid cheese and store-bought salad dressing, etc. Just don’t buy them and don’t keep them stocked in your pantry. Replace ice cream with yoghurt. Try to cook for yourself. The closer you are to primary ingredients the better. Secondly, give yourself one cheat day per week or so. We are not robots that follow instructions blindly without thinking. Don’t try to follow diets, try to build better habits.

Another big one is beer. I love beer. I’m German. But I’ve gotten used to sharing 1–2 cans per beer per week with my wife. Drinking for taste and pleasure. Of course, if there is a wedding or a BBQ, I will indulge further. But alcohol is another big one. (You didn’t mention alcohol in your post, but it is an important point.)

My food cravings and preferences shift quite a bit across a year and over the years. In January, I want more chocolate, which is a left-over from all the chocolate and candy I have had in December. When I train less, my cravings shift towards less healthy food. When I am training well, I don’t want fatty and fried foods anymore.

Speaking from my own experience regarding food cravings: after December (where I eat more-than-usual and more chocolate and sweets), I always have cravings in January for things like chocolate. Know that they will go away with time. During most of the year, I buy 1–2 chocolates per month. Also, things like muesli and oat meal might taste bland at first, because they have much less or no added sugar. After a while your taste buds rewire and regular cereal tastes impossibly sweet.

Lastly, learn to deal with discomfort. I’m trying to lose 2 kg now (probably nothing for you) without it impacting me. This is just the weight I have gained over the holidays and a consequence of a forced 5-week training holiday (due to illness). It feels a bit weird to go to bed slightly hungry. In my case I also don’t want to impact my training negatively.

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30

@CaptainThunderpants Not sure I can add much more value than others already, other than: I hear you, man! I’m very similar. Can eat a ton, hardly ever feel satiated so eat some more and the weight will come back on no problem.

Like others mentioned, quality of the food is huge. I’ve been have slow/steady success using the DQS app (Daily Quality Score). You track what you eat, but it only takes 15-30 seconds to track a meal. You get + points for good food and - points for bad food. It has started to make me more mindful. You can stll overeat only eat veggies but it’s alot harder. The main issue I’ve had is the healthy food never hits the spot the same way salt/sugar/fat processed goodies provide.

One dish I’ve found really good, that I can go to over and over is giant omelette; 4 eggs, coupld handfuls of spinach, mushrooms, peppers, onion, beans (if readily available) and banana peppers or something spicy.

Good luck!

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31

Thank you! And also you can do things to them other than roasting:) for a quality meal full of veggies and macronutrient buddha bowls are the best and easy to prepare. Take you base (rice or groats, quinoa or whatever you like), add some lentils, chickpeas, take a handful of veggies - you can roast some of them, pickle others or use raw to add different textures and volume, finish with something you like - chicken(most boring), salmon or other fish, pork or beef, poached eggs and create some easy sauce for moisture and you are golden - the infinite amount of combinations.

Some basic examples [with tofu] and sriracha (Buddha Bowl – tofu w sosie miód-sriracha | Karo in the Kitchen):

You can find thousand of different takes on that.

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32

Lots of good thoughts in this thread, especially from @OreoCookie

Going back to your thread title, fuelling for the work. The key to doing this is understanding what is in things. The most important thing is being able to read the label, and once you learn how to understand labels it will scare you of how much crap there is in things. Don’t focus on specific ingredients just yet, just get an understanding of fat, carbs (carbs in pasta is different than carbs from sugar etc), and protein.

Weigh your food!

A bowl of Cheese Its that can take you 2min to finish, might be an hour on the bike, only be sugar and fat, and not make you full at all…

Then make a bowl of rice, and I promise you that you will be full before you finish 500kcal of rice, and now you have also fuelled for the next workout (if you have a ride after work and you have rice for lunch, for example).

I think the key is to recalibrate your tastebuds to not crave those insanely unhealthy things. Dont keep them at home is a good start.

We usually have a tub of Ben & Jerrys at home. But we never eat straight from the tub. We put out bowls and put some ice cream there, it recalibrates your brain that when that bowl is done, ice cream is finished. Its not finished when the whole tub is out.

And also, sleeping enough is key, eat food when you’re hungry and not snacks, have some type of snack that you know is controlled, that you can have if things are going south and you need to eat something before dinner. If I have 2hrs until dinner after a workout, ill have a piece of toast with one slice of cheese and some cucumber on.

Its all about balance, replace the worst stuff with less bad stuff (cheese its → one piece of toast) etc.

I would say, dont focus on caloric surplus or whatnot just yet. Start with just eating proper, home cooked food, focus on protein intake, stop snacking and find a balance. I dont know how much you are riding, but I usually ride about 12 hours a week, and I just make sure to eat properly and enough. Even when I am doing 25-27 hour weeks at training camp, I eat the same, but eat way way more pasta instead of rice (much more carbs in pasta). So I would say that unless you really really know what you are doing, aiming for a caloric surplus right now isn’t gonna do you any favours except maybe trying to convince yourself that you can eat more than you really should.

There are so many different things that affects this, so its hard to pinpoint one thing, but sleep and not buying snacks, never do groceries when hungry, and it will be an ok start I think :slight_smile:

Also, no need for those empty calories in the whole milk, skim milk is better and you can use those extra calories you saved to have some more carbs or protein.

Also, I know lots of people think like “oh I will have a Caesar sallad with chicken, its sallad and chicken”, but its actually just as calorie dense as a McDonalds meal due to all fat in the sauce.

So really really learn what food contains, keep that in mind and try to eat protein and (quality) carbs before you look at the unhealthy and fatty stuff!

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33

Check the research. The post-exercise ‘anabolic window’ is bro science. If you want to maximize muscle protein synthesis current recommendations are to hit 20-25g protein (google leucine threshold) 4-5xday. It
doesn’t have to be protein powder, plenty easy to do with real food and doesn’t have to be timed with a workout.

The ‘recovery shake’ for cycling is also semi-bro science. yes, the body absorbs carbs to replenish muscle glycogen more quickly immediately post-workout, but you have plenty of time. And carbs are more important than protein. The main study people cite compared carbs and carbs+protein but didn’t equalize calories. Shocker, more calories = better recovery. But you don’t have to drink it.

The OP said he lost a lot of weight and is trying not to put it back on. Why then consume food in the least satiating way? That just makes it easier to over eat over the entire day. As someone who lost a lot of weight and finds it easy to gain weight I’m going ‘real’ food all the time over shakes.

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I don’t mind the judgement. But I actually think I eat healthier than most. I think my example from yesterday may have skewed the view on what I usually eat. Cheez-its are my guilty pleasure food. And I know I shouldn’t keep them around because I’ll binge on a 500-1000 cal portion pretty easily. But apart from that, I don’t eat terribly, just a lot. For the most part. Pre-packaged cereals I still eat because I don’t have time to cook in the morning. My lunches and dinners are super boring. I rotate between 3 meals for 90% of my eating: PB&J sandwich, pasta (some store brand semi-fresh you find in the refrigerated section) without sauce or cheese but add a little butter, or chicken and broccoli with or without rice depending on how lazy I am the days before. The chicken is pre-sealed, pre-marinated and I sous vide a few pounds at a time and throw in containers for the week. Then I’ll have fruit smoothies which consist of frozen whole fruit (blueberries, strawberries, bananas, peaches), whole fat greek yogurt, peanut butter, and apple cider if I have it (which I’m thinking I can leave out as it’s just sugar water).

I don’t drink. Which has been great for my health in the 5 or so years since I gave it up. But no easy gets there.

Update mid post:
Ok, I’ll admit I have a terrible sense of how many calories I’m eating. As I went to the kitchen to get pictures of the pre-sealed chicken, I looked at the pasta. And wow. I buy the family size packages and 1 package is 3200cal. I usually divide that into 2 portions. So I’ll eat 1600cal in one sitting, plus ~100 from the butter (and definitely don’t feel stuffed after). I swore I’ve looked at the nutrition facts in the past and it was ~700cal per portion. This is cheese ravioli so the plain fettuccine should be less as I’m guessing the cheese is the big calorie part. And looking at the peanut butter (Smucker’s Natural Chunky, no added sugar), my PB&J sandwiches have easily 500cal plus just from that. I think doing some calorie tracking is needed.

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This! As I just found out. And I think part of it is a slow drift. I love pasta, and would think it’s carbs so I’m just fueling my workouts. And I’d eat angel hair or fettuccine, but then that would drift to tortellini and then I end up with the cheese ravioli that has 70g of fat per portion. And I’d think oh it’s just pasta, it’s not bad.

I wish I could agree with that, but I’ll eat a cup of rice pretty easily with dinner, which is around 600kcal.

Thankfully I’ve curbed that craving because I would eat a pint in one sitting after dinner.

Cheese is my downfall!

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37

Sorry, but to quote Ron Swanson,

image

I have tried but can’t stand the taste of skim milk. Just tastes like dirty water to me.

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Laziness mostly. Last thing I feel like doing is cooking after a tough workout. A “recovery” shake, and I won’t debate the effectiveness, is just easier. If I have my meal preps ready I’ll go for that, but sometimes it’s just easier to down a shake.

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I think that’s a good start. Perhaps the suggestion to start calorie counting in order to know where you can cut needless calories might be a good start.

Replacing cereals with muesli could help here. While calorie-wise it might not be too different, I find that the muesli keeps me satiated for longer. (I reckon the oats that are typically part of a muesli mix release their nutrients more slowly.) I often add some fruit (especially banana).

Pasta is great, I have a few sauces in rotation, too. I love that you can make tons of sauce and refrigerate or freeze some for later. When I make tomato sauce, I’d often put in egg plant for extra fiber and substance. I cut the egg plant in small cubes, and they “dissolve” in the sauce.

One thing I started doing, though, is measure the amount of pasta. That keeps portion sizes in check.

Rice bowls are also a great idea.

I love fruit smoothies, they are my go-to for post workout treats. I also add some chocolate-flavored SIS protein powder (also contains carbs). That fills me up quite a bit, too. I’d often use milk as a liquid rather than water and/or add plain yoghurt for some extra tanginess.

Wow, 1,600 kCal in one go is a lot. That’s roughly half of the calories I need when I am training. Calorie counting might be a good idea. It’s pretty hard to stay on track if you eat 1,600 kCal in one meal and get used to the portion size.

Yup, same here.
I’d much rather moderate my milk intake than be able to drink more skim milk.

PS One trick that helped me stave off my candy cravings is that I am allowed to eat sweet stuff while on the bike. I usually fuel with a mix of gummi bears, drink mix and gels. I know I can’t overeat while on the bike, so that helps. I wish I could replace gummi bears with chocolate, but that wouldn’t work as a fuel.

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Agreed. After the pasta discovery I think a good baseline is tracking how many calories I’m actually eating.

Sour patch kids for me. I buy a bulk bag and divide it into smaller portions for on the bike carbs. Only eat them on the bike.

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I still ate cereal up until about 2 years ago….and it was also crap cereal. The junk you ate as a kid. When I was doing my IM training, I would eat almost a whole box for breakfast.

Then I switched to Cream of Wheat. Only takes ~2 minutes to are in the microwave, top with a bit of brown sugar, a handful of blueberries and some banana slices. Net result - I am eating less and it is higher quality food.

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43

Haha, my favourite series! I always giggle a bit when I drink skim because I think of that quote from Ron! :smiley: But if you are having milk with things like protein shakes etc, it doesn’t make a difference enough to be worth almost twice the calories.

In coffee and other things where fat content needs to be there to add favour, I buy the argument :wink:

Regarding the rice, what’s on the box nutrient wise is rice uncooked. Just so you don’t confuse uncooked with cooked when it comes to actually measuring it.

One cup of cooked rice is actually not that much, and also not that much carbs/calories. I would say that 200g of chicken (worth having thigh instead of breast due to taste), 1 cup of rice and then some tzatziki is a good staple meal if you like that kind of food. You can also add lots of veggies to it and I promise that you’ll be full!

We love cheese as well, and honestly, its not - that - bad, but like most things made of fat, its VERY calorie dense. I will help with the mindset to know the following:

  • Carbohydrates provide 4 calories per gram
  • Protein provides 4 calories per gram
  • Fat provides 9 calories per gram
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One thing here that is a really good tip. Don’t look at serving size unless you really know how much is a serving. They trick you into thinking that there is less calories and shitty stuff in there than it really is.

They can call it “a serving”, but to get full you have to eat like 4 of them…

Easier is to look at it per 100g, and always use 100g as the number you compare it to.

For example of calories per 100g in different foods:

  • Chicken thigh = 160
  • Dry pasta = 356
  • Dry rice = 360
  • Frosties = 375
  • Peanut butter = 567
  • Butter = 768

So its very clear that if you try to cut out fat, in general, you can eat more of the other stuff, which will make you more full :slight_smile:

45

That may be but I’ll throw this out as a point of thought. You’ve mentioned tons of packaged and prepared food. You get a lot of added sugar, low quality fats (seed oils), and a lot of added salt in packaged food.

If you can shift gears to whole foods, you’ll be 10 levels up on a healthier diet.

It’s tough because in our world we are surrounded by convenient and calorie dense foods. Whole foods are blander at first because they don’t have all the added sugar, fat and salt.

I’d also reconsider cereal as a morning meal. Athletes need significant protein. Think about some eggs in the morning.

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On pasta sauce (or pizza, or good on rice, veggies, etc.): I’ve found a winner - Whole Foods 365 brand organic. It is relatively inexpensive - ~$2.40 per 25oz jar - and has zero added sugar.

We really like the Arrabbiata, which has the following ingredients:
Organic Tomatoes In Organic Tomato Juice, Organic Tomato Purée (Water, Organic Tomato Paste), Salt, Organic Onions, Organic Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Organic Garlic Purée (Organic Garlic, Water), Organic Crushed Red Peppers, Organic Basil, Organic Onion Powder, Organic Garlic Powder, Organic Dried Basil, Organic Dried Oregano, Organic Black Pepper.

If you don’t like spice, skip this, and go for the tomato basil or similar

47

One thing I like prepping ahead are cooking sweet potatoes, you can even keep them frozen for a couple weeks. Pull them out as needed, just give it a day to thaw out in the fridge. Slow digesting carb and I personally love them, slice down the center and stick some peanut butter in there if you want a little more calories. I keep them around as a healthy snack that keeps me full til the next meal or even as a recovery snack. 10 ounces it like 250 calories and fiber keeps my appetite in check.

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On cereal: the thing I do is cook a large amount of oatmeal at once - 24oz dry - and then eat it over the week. I keep it simple - just steel cut oats & water - and then when I reheat it in the microwave, that’s when I add other things like a bit of honey / peanut butter / etc. This makes it really easy, as a bowl only takes ~3 minutes to reheat.

If you haven’t noticed, my strategy is to cook “add-ins” / meal bases in large quantities that I can easily pull out to make a relatively healthy meal by just reheating in the microwave.

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I didn’t think I did. Cheez-its (which I said I know are bad but a guilty pleasure food) and breakfast cereal. Unless you consider stuff like yogurt and peanut butter (peanuts, salt) processed foods, which I guess they are. The meat is all from the butcher section of my grocery store, they do the marinating in house. And pasta because I’m not going to make my own pasta every night. The bread is packaged, but again, I’m not making my own bread. And jam from a local farm; processed but probably better than store bought stuff.

I’d love to eat better at breakfast but waking up at 4AM I’m a zombie and can’t bring myself to cook. Something simple like oats or muesli may be a better option though.

50

Love sweet potatoes. Little olive oil, salt, and pepper in the oven for a bit. So good.

Not sure I’d like this.

I think breakfast could get better for sure. I don’t have a problem with oats, I’m just lazy in the wee hours of the morning.