FTP to high, loose power 'quickly'

[Sykkelfant]

Was wondering to get some input. My FTP tests regularly at or around 300 watts. As I transition to indoor riding and following structured calendar workouts I find that I fade quickly (say after half of the plan w/o) on VO2 max efforts. Obviously my muscular endurance is not there as local conditions don’t line up enough hard efforts in a row.

My question: should I keep the FTP and hold out as long as I can or drop it to a level where I think I can handle through the planned workout? Basically, what is the best way to increase my muscular endurance during anaerobic efforts?

[jarsson]

@Sykkelfant

My FTP tests regularly at or around 300 watts

What test?

@Sykkelfant

I find that I fade quickly (say after half of the plan w/o) on supra-threshold efforts.

And how about normal threshold workouts with long durations or O/U? Maybe there is a room to improve your lactate clearing or usage. Suprathreshold are very hard in my personal opinion.

[bugs1978]

I think it’s best that you do a Ramp test on your trainer and use the FTP from that.
When i use my “outside” FTP as refference i fade quickly too.
There’s about 15 Watts between my inside and outside ftp at the moment.

Ithink it’s something to do with conditions inside vd outside, and my “dumb” fluid trainer which gives the same powerfeedback durig the entire pedal stroke (no flywheel effect).

[PusherMan]

Which Plan are you following? Are you willing to make your account public? That will enable us to see how your workouts are stacked and get a better understanding of the workouts you’re struggling with.

As @jarsson said, Supra workouts are no joke. A significant portion of the workload goes on in the mind. If I look at the 5 or 6 efforts ahead of me in a workout, I struggle. Try focusing on that one effort in front of you. Get that one done. A little personal mantra I use when the timer is counting down from 10 to 0 and the interval starts, I say to myself ‘accept the work’. This helps prime me.

If you haven’t yet tested via any of the methods offered by TR, I’d highly recommend that you do.

[blind76]

Do an indoor FTP test and use it for indoor training. There is a big chance that is even 10% lower then your outside FTP

[Sykkelfant]

Thanks @jarsson, I had a bit of ah-ha moment after I wrote my request that I think you too picked up on.

I have been using the ramp test to determine my FTP. If I’m honest with myself the few times that I tested with the 20 min FTP test I think I remember that I tested lower. Don’t think I can hold that ~ 325ish watts for 20 min if my life depended upon it.

Brings up the new question on certain workouts I would find that ~275 watts (guestimate) FTP from my 20 min test, easy. Your thoughts there?

Also, been using my terms wrongly. Think I am actually only talking about threshold efforts those 325 ish watts for say 4-6 min.

Thanks for your inputs to keep this aging 57 yr, old from totally becoming the nail

Doug

[Sykkelfant]

Thanks @bugs1978, I have been using the Ramp test indoors to get that 300 watt number. As I just pointed out to @jarsson is that I’m wondering if I should suck it up and do a 20 min test, lower (I assume) my FTP and then work on that strength / muscular endurance. Having said that after 30ish years playing bike I know I will find some workouts easy, of course I could adjust for those. Guess the same ‘logic’ could be said for keeping the FTP and reduce out of the gate. Dunno what makes the most sense.

[Sykkelfant]

@PusherMan I did make my profile public, didn’t realize that I could.

I had to correct my lack of nomenclature knowledge as well. I think I am just talking about threshold efforts. Those, what, 120ish % of FTP 4-6 min.

Appreciate your mantra share, focus is also another issue that I could improve upon.

Thanks for your inputs!

Doug

[bbarrera]

@Sykkelfant

Those, what, 120ish % of FTP 4-6 min

most would call those vo2max efforts

[PusherMan]

My first observation is that I can’t see an awful lot of TR training history. You’ve used TR for a while but not really followed any structured plans. This looks to be your first time following a plan.

That said, it looks like you’ve jumped straight in with Sustained Power Build - Mid Volume, or something very close to that plan. Most TR users and the TR Team would recommend that you build your Base before progressing into a Build phase. That doesn’t mean you have to do six weeks of Sweet Spot Base I, followed by another six weeks of Sweet Spot Base II, but it does help prepare you for a Build Phase.

The intervals you look to be cutting short all require muscle endurance/strength. Workouts such as Red Lake and Elephants, coupled with the Over/Unders in Sustained Power Build are challenging. They also build fatigue, rapidly. If your body isn’t used to shedding that fatigue, you could start digging yourself into a hole.

My advice? I would draw a line under the plan you’re currently following. Keep your FTP and go back to Base. Sweet Spot Base II at the very least. Build a foundation.

Best of luck

[UKCarl]

@PusherMan

That doesn’t mean you have to do six weeks of Sweet Spot Base I, followed by another six weeks of Sweet Spot Base II, but it does help prepare you for a Build Phase.

I agree. I think some (including myself previously) view base as easy. It’s not, there are Vo2 max efforts plus over unders. All of the Sat rides in SSBMV II are hard

I’m in my 3rd TR year and just reached my highest FTP after completing SSBMV 1 & 2.

[Sykkelfant]

@PusherMan; @UKCarl, wanted to thank you for your inputs. I take your points. I guess I had “assumed” that enough outdoor road miles would translate well to the indoors. For sure that is part of my ‘issue’. I have not, as pointed out, done much structured training indoors, as that form of training bores me to tears and I can ride comfortably outdoors 10 months out of the year.

@PusherMan especially appreciate your point regarding the build up of fatigue. I seem to handle that well and am able to recover, or so says my Whoop.

All the best!

Doug

[Brennus]

@Sykkelfant your FTP is set too high. You’re unable to complete over/under and sweetspot workouts. It’s not just VO2max stuff.

Looks like you did your last ramp test correctly, I just think it’s telling you a lie. We are the same in this respect. Pick an FTP that allows you to do Spruce Knob in fashion that’s ‘hard but do-able’.