My wahoo kicker trainer has a very predictable power offset compared to the “true” power that my power meter(s) report. While power-match works well when the bike with the power meter is used, it would be immensely helpful to be able to use this correction when a bike without the power meter is on the trainer.
There are various use case for this, e.g. permanent bike on the trainer, one type of bike with PM and the other without (for those that do road and mountain or TT). In my case it would reduce the vector 2 pedal swaps at least by a third.
How it would work? Just apply a transformation to the power given by the smart trainer. This could be as simple as a fixed offset, better a percentage offset, even better a combination and even better apply different offset at power range.
One way to compensate is by adjusting the FTP % for each workout, but I am afraid that this does not sound very good and definitely will give very erratic TSS.
That sounds like a nice way to “calibrate” your trainer. Use a bike with a PM that you trust the values from on the trainer for a quick calibration ride; maybe a mini ramp to compare bike PM to trainer output at various power levels (I know mine does not seem to be linear across the power spectrum). Then use that to create a calibration curve for your trainer so that it matches your outside-bike’s trusted PM. That calibration could be a saved setting for the controlled trainer device. I’d guess half this code is already written for the power match functionality.
This is a request that we’ve seen fairly often, and we would really like to solve in the future.
We have some plans to rework device settings, but haven’t nailed down exactly what it’s going to entail quite yet, but we will keep this suggestion in mind as we move forward
This sounds even better than entering those manually.
Actually, that is what I have been doing from time to time to create an offset curve:
Set the kicker from its utility to a certain wattage
Pedal for 20 seconds stable and record the power meter reading
Rest for whatever time is required (a must when resistance is above FTP)
Repeat 25 watts higher resistance
The offset is pretty unchangeable for a year now, with the kickr showing around 8% higher power between 100 and 200 watts, then steadily this drops and at 350 it shows the same at 500 it is 7% lower!
Any progress on these plans, Bryce? I would think that with Adaptive Training, the team would be very keen to ensure that the Machine Learning was getting accurate data. I’m swinging from “too hard” on the trainer to “too easy” on the bike due to the 10 watt offset between trainer and bike. AT keeps asking me “Why was this workout so hard for you today” and I wish there was an option to say “Because my trainer has a 10 watt offset and I don’t want to have to move my PM back and forth”.
Hi there- I have to imagine that there are many others like me who thought the “power match” feature of TR would allow me to 1) measure any difference between my trainer and outdoor power pedals (by moving my pedals to my trainer and performing a workout) and then 2) use that information to set offset manually on the trainer. (There is a button that says manual offset, after all.)
I have since learned that I can only use the powermatch offset feature if I have my power pedals on the trainer. I don’t want to own two sets of pedals and I don’t want to be constantly moving my pedals back and forth. There is a 10 watt difference (my trainer is “harder”)- such that it makes it hard for me to succeed at trainer workouts. I’m using AT, which complicates matters. The obvious option is just to turn down the intensity by 5% when on the trainer but then I am seeming to “fail” the workout. Another option is to just change my FTP downwards, but then the outdoor workouts will be too easy. Either way, the AT is going to be constantly swinging between thinking that my program is too hard or too easy.
I understand that they way the algo is written means that it’s not possible to allow a manual offset entry without the pedals being on the trainer. But what about coming at it a different way- when I set the intensity at 95%, have an option to “Consider this 100%”. Any other suggestions for me? I will also say that with AT in Beta, I think that this is an issue that you would want to resolve since with Machine Learning, it’s critical that the Machine is learning on accurate data. Thank you in advance, and thanks to the TR for an amazing product. Despite my gripe above, I’m a very happy (new) customer and your Customer Support is amazing.
I think you’re confusing what offset is - its nothing to do with power readings between trainer and your pedals.
The offset process is to ensure accuracy of the power meter itself by catering for temperature variation between (and during) rides - eg to make sure 0w is always 0w regardless of the effect of temperature of the strain gauges etc. Therefore the process needs to be done for every ride, and even during a session, as the materials warm/cool etc through the session.
The reason it can only be done with pedals attached is that TR (or your head unit) sends a command to the pedals themselves to ‘zero’ and therefore take into account the current temps etc and any effect on the zero point.
From the olden days.
I also asked for a similar feature. No dice yet.
IIRC, my left side Stages is now set to 165mm for a 175mm crank and the 4iiii is scaled to .9 something to line up with my trainer.
Are you able to adjust the scale on the pedals?
Thank you for your helpful reply. Interesting to see that TR was considering adding this over two years ago and still nothing. That’s a great hack you came up with. My PM’s are dual, and I’m not seeing anything about being able to scale them, just zero offset calibration. Thanks again.
No Worries. It looks like your post has been merged with the old one now.
You’re probably best off sticking with the trainer power for all your indoor work if you won’t be using the pedals all the time.
IME +/- 10 watts outdoors is close enough during a workout.
I am intending to move from Zwift to Trainerroad imminently to establish a more accurate, detailed approach to training.
I am in the process of trying to increase the accuracy of my Elite Suito T trainer which I am using alongside my Assioma Duo PM pedals. At present it is offset by as much as 10-15%.
As many of you know this involves sending Indoor session data to Elite and receiving Firmware Json files to adjust the ‘power output’ of the Suito.
So far this process (2 new json files) has been pretty unsuccessful.
I would love to have a setup where I don’t have to constantly swap my Assioma Pedals from trainer bike setup to my road bike. It is often impractical and time consuming…
Is there any possibility in the future having a Manual offset on Trainerroad where there is no PM present?
If not is there any future workaround that would allow for some consistency between rides with the Assioma pedals and those with the ‘inaccurate’ smart trainer?
I may have to return my Elite Suito and have thought of an ‘upgrade’ to a Wahoo Kickr.
It is clear from other Forum threads that even the Kickr can have accuracy issues and I would be loathe to end up in the same situation I am currently in.
This would be an awesome feature as my trainer is a good 10-20 PERCENT off, not just watts. I haven’t gone through the process of seeing how much because it is just ridiculous. I only use my road bike on the trainer because even though I have an old bike that would be great, I don’t want to be moving my pedals back and forth all the time either as my roadie is my commuter.
