Failing 90 min Threshold workouts

This chart really helps, thanks!

It’s a really easy way to quantify the response.

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“Who nails these? anyone?”

Sure. The ride feed is full of people who complete that workout. So it’s not unusual.
(edit: I just went back and checked my ride history for these workouts. In at least two cases I took the time to note that either the workout was really hard or it took ‘mental energy’ to complete the workout.)

And, in fact, I’m kind of thinking like you…not sure why you had trouble. You crushed leconte and warlow. In fact, I’d say even Robion was a good shout on a day where you admit you were not motivated. You did lots of good work in that Robion workout.

The real mystery to me is that Pavilon workout. That’s a Threshold 4.0 workout compared to Robion which is Threshold 5.0 & I would have guessed on a normal day you probably would have completed Robion (at least based on your 25feb workout).

So, I don’t know. Maybe it was just a hangover of fatigue from that big TSS bolus from the 04mar group ride? You just got a little behind on recovery and the problem rolled downhill until it broke you on 11mar?

It’s not mine, it’s all from Chadmcneese. I just pulled out the numbers based stuff.

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You’re right, that was a big week leading up to it. I did feel like I needed a break. Now after a rest week, I feel great and ready for tomorrow’s Gran Fondo!

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Yeah, I think you’re definitely gonna be ready to ride! You know, in those workouts, even if you don’t get through the last set, it’s still a lot of good work. It’s going to pay off.

Yes, looking at it now. That was still 45 min of great work to top of the week. I feel better about this now, thank you!

Only recently with the experimental polarized plans have I encountered these threshold workouts. The triathlon plans I’ve done for several years didn’t often include them. I’ve found them very challenging. My setup is an Elite Direto trainer and 4iiii left side power meter, using the power meter as the source and using Power match to adjust resistance at the trainer. I also record my rides on my Garmin watch so I can see the difference in power readings between the two meters. It turned out that the trainer’s power was creeping up on successive intervals, while the 4iiii was staying constant. So if I was supposed to hold 8’ intervals at 245w, the trainer would creep up to 265w by the last interval, and I would be completely fried. I think it was a matter of left leg fatiguing faster than my right leg. Once I switched to just using the trainer for power, the threshold efforts were just right, and repeatable as expected/predicted. They’re still very challenging but I complete them successfully. Pretty pleased to finish up 12 weeks of base being able to complete 6.5-rated threshold workouts.

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One thing to think about…OTS is less susceptible to temperature than orthogonal strain gauge array. I think I’ve said on this forum a couple times: if you want a real strava edge, put your power meter crank arm in the freezer before you zero it.

I got Pavillon today. Just barely completed it with one stop in the middle of the second to last interval, marked as all-out. All-time high power for 1:11-1:30; I have no idea why TR thought Robion (which is 1 PL higher) was appropriate two weeks ago.

(Huh, just noticed it’s not “Pavilion” but “Pavillon”. Is it French or a reference to the shape of the sets?)


Good job!

I’ve been on the wildcat → montalban → bonales → lliwedd progression and it’s been rough, so good to hear that I’m not alone with this type.

I had to pull out every mental trick in my book to finish bonales last week. Lliwedd coming up this week. I’m bracing myself.

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Well, how did it go?

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Thanks for asking. It went pretty good. I beat my time from last year by just over 8 minutes. Averaged 199w for 5hrs 10min, which is definitely a personal best. And set a bunch of PR’s on the course.
I messed up my fueling a bit, didn’t get enough in the beginning because of the opening climbs trying to get in a good group. Chasing a group I shouldn’t have. And a long not very technical, but hard to drink at, descent.
I tried to catch up on fuel into and at the fuel station, but took on too much and got an upset stomach. Felt like barfing for a while, lol.
Second half I backed way off and just suffered, trying to get back on my nutrition without overdoing it. By the end, last 10 miles or so, I felt a lot better again and could put some power back in.
Finished 78/224 versus my 117/249 the year before.
I definitely think some long rides before this would have served me well. If nothing else, to just be comfortable with the amount of time in the saddle and evening out my fueling.
But like mentioned before, I’m more of a crit / cx racer and this is probably the only GF I’ll do this year.


:thinking: Hmmm.

Maybe I should work some Robion fails into my training program.

Good job.

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Ha ha, I’m telling you it works!

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I posted the below topic, imho the jumps are too large between these types of workouts

You and me both. These things suck. I do have a solution though - avoid, avoid, avoid. :grinning:


if you are failing these workouts your FTP is too high. you are barely above threshold in these workouts.
Take the ego hit, swallow the pill, and go train consistently without blowing up.

If you really think your FTP is right go do a 25-30min test in resistance road and see


I’m trying to go by AI detection. Are you saying it doesn’t work?