Why not follow TrainingPeaks, Xert, and others in allowing the export of your workouts to Zwift (.zwo format), or as a file I could load onto my Garmin (.tcx) so I can ride it outside? I and many others I know would much rather ride on a real or mock road than a graph. I don’t understand the concern and believe TR has much more to lose from not doing this than doing it.
I asked TR about this before and the answer makes sense - if you could easily export, it’s not about the individual use, but someone would post them for public use. And then less people would use (and financially support) TR.
@fasterthanever is spot on there
That being said, we do understand that many users wish to ride in the Zwift ecosystem while completing their training within TrainerRoad. For those cases, it is possible to use both applications simultaneously.
If that’s something that you’d be interested in, check out this article:
Thanks for the replies. I’ll try running them together and see how that goes. However, if I save the Zwift ride you’ll miss the name promotion you get on Strava. Moreover, I believe you have more to gain from doing it by preserving current users and adding new ones, than you’d lose to rule breakers. In fact, I’d suggest adding a warning about sharing workouts before every export. Honestly, I’m considering droping TrainerRoad in favor of Xert just because of their feature allowing exports to Zwift. Somehow Zwift automatically puts the Xert workout it in a separate “Xert” folder. I wonder if that helps prevent sharing or at least tracking down violators?
I think that core TR users don’t really care about them “gamifying” the workouts and probably TR guys knows about that so they prefer to spend energy developing the workouts.
I think many of us that have been using both TR and Zwift for a long time appreciate the benefits and limitations of each platform. They serve a slight different purpose for most. Running both platforms simultaneously seems to be the best option for almost everyone wanting to follow more than just a graph when doing a workout.
I agree on this point…I would love to export TR workouts into Zwift as I prefer the Zwift workout model much more than the TR bar graphs. I have enjoyed the ease of exporting Xert workouts into Zwift. My TR subscription is hanging in the balance based on their simplified approach to analytics (I find this very useful).
It would be cool if there was a partnership between the two (imagine linking your two subscriptions to pull up TR workouts within Z) but that seems pretty unlikely. While Z does have the nifty gates and colors with their embedded workouts, the TR plans are so much more comprehensive (and effective), I’ve gravitated to primarily using just TR. Using the “parallel mode” referenced above works well when a visual distraction is useful (hello winter!). I think it depends on your personal goals.
I manually create all my TR workouts in Zwift and frankly it’s a pain (although the recent addition of cloud sync of custom workouts has made creating them on a PC and riding them on my iPad far less tedious).
The argument of illegal sharing is a bit weak (but probably true) as all the platforms that export to .zwo could say the same. Anyway, after 18 months of both I’ve got 90% of my TR workouts created so it’s just doing the odd “oh, that looks interesting“ workout that grates…or I just use the TR app if motivation is high!
“Weak” or not, it is their IP (Intellectual Property) and they are free to allow or restrict it’s use as they see fit.
Not really a debatable issue and whatever any other company does is totally irrelevant.
What matters is what TR says about their work, and I don’t think they are at all fuzzy or unclear in their wording:
Responsible Use and Conduct
- c. Accessing (or attempting to access) any of our Resources by any means other than through the means we provide, is strictly prohibited. You specifically agree not to access (or attempt to access) any of our Resources through any automated, unethical or unconventional means.
- e. Attempting to copy, duplicate, reproduce, sell, trade, or resell our Resources is strictly prohibited.
So, copying the workouts and reproducing them in another environment (Zwift or otherwise) is a violation AFAIK.
Err…there’s no need to get all ‘legal eagle’ on me! I’m a paid up subscriber for over two years so not really the kind of customer you need to throw stuff at?!
As I understand it, as long as I am not sharing or distributing TR workouts I’m doing nothing wrong. Creating the workouts in Zwift is the same as creating them on Garmin and riding them outdoors - something the guys have spoken about doing numerous times.
Also, I’m not questioning anything TR decides as policy. I wouldn’t want to hurt their business in anyway. Love and respect Nate, Chad, John et al too much for that.
Edit: and of course, if TR is unhappy with the way I’m using its tool, I’m happy (well not happy) to have my account locked, revoked or whatever action is deemed appropriate.
This is a topic I have watched and commented on for years, and it is something I care about greatly.
You are not “sharing” the files which is great, but that is not the only issue here. I see the replication of workouts in, and accessing of the workouts, in an app that is not the official TR App, as a violation of the T&C. It’s minor, but still a violation in my eyes. I could very well be wrong, but it seems like an issue to me.
I am not attacking you particularly. But I have seen these arguments for years and don’t see the interpretation the same way. You do what you want to do. I just want it clearly stated that it may well be against the TR T&C, so others should think twice about heading down similar roads.
Apologies I see where you are coming from and yes you are right in respect of the legal conditions. I guess my take is, there’s no need to use those bits of the terms until someone starts doing something naughty…which would be massively annoying for those who aren’t.
exactly. The more i do the plans, the more I realize how amazingly well they are put together and somehow progress you enough that they push you close to the edge without going over (most times!).
It would be good to get clarification from the TR team whether it is ok to create the workout on Zwift and keep it private - which might help users that don’t have ANT+, and who find it easier to get motivated and complete workouts with the visual stimulation from Zwift (or other apps that have a virtual riding simulation).
I don’t read the “responsible use and conduct” clauses as strictly as @mcneese.chad, and think the intention behind the provisions is pretty clearly aimed at preventing people from doing things that cause harm to the TR business (i.e. copying on Zwift and then having all of your workouts public which would enable other people to follow the TR training plans without paying, which sucks). This is reinforced by the recovery clause which says that TR may claim any losses caused by your breach (directly or indirectly) from you. If you have created a workout to do on Zwift, and kept it private, I don’t see how that could lead to any losses to the TR business, and if that is the difference between you completing your TR workout or bailing then I would hope that the TR team were all for it? As above, TR have recognised that some people thrive from the visual stimulation that Zwift offers, and have set out a method for doing both. But that only works for people with an ANT+ dongle. ANT+ dongles aren’t expensive so the best option is probably to just get one, but in the meantime it would be nice to have confirmation from the TR team about whether it is ok to just create the workout on zwift and do it privately?
Thanks for this thread, I’ve learned how to import rides into Zwift. I have a coach, I have TrainerRoad, TrainingPeaks, and Zwift subscriptions, it’s painful, but manageable. My coach gives me 6-7 custom workouts per week, most I do on the trainer rather than outdoors, for the indoor rides I’ve been exporting them into ERG files then importing into TR workout creator, synching then doing the workout. I like TR, I don’t mind this. But now that I know I can drop the ZWO file directly into a folder in Zwift, well that eliminates a step and saves time. I think I’ll be doing my coaches custom workouts on Zwift now. I won’t cancel TR ever, at least not while I’m still able to race a bike because I have the grandfathered $99/yr fee (and I think they’re an awesome company).
Edit… I should add, I do find it unethical to import TR’s IP onto another platform, even if it’s not a big secret I couldn’t do it.
Sorry as I’ve just skimmed this, but say you had a subscription to TR and created a custom workout in Zwift that happened to exist on TR you’d risk legal action? What a load of rubbish. TR don’t have exclusive rights to for example 4x 3min at 108% FTP. There’s so many workouts on TR that you’d be hard pushed to create a custom workout that didn’t exist
I did my first ride tonight importing into Zwift instead of TR, a ride from my coach, not from the TR library. I have to admit, while I was watching videos most of the time the Zwift workout mode was kind of neat. I’ve heard less than great things about their workout library, but it’s kind of cool for doing custom workouts, and very easy to import. The current desktop version of TrainerRoad has a bug in resistance mode, it spikes the power massively so this bug is pushing me to use Zwift for more and more of my custom workouts.
I do all my TR workouts in Zwift. As a sort of groupworkout. I like the interaction and the idea of riding with other people. I use my phone as TR hub, since the whole technical part of trainerroad seems, feels and works so much better then the Zwift Workout modus does. On occasion i do a race or groupride on Zwift as well. Keeping things playful and fun
I get and appreciate the legal concern. Have you seen how TraingPeaks does it? They have some type of agreement with Zwift and an integration whereby if your TrainingPeaks subscription is active (via a background authentication) you can access the TP workout you scheduled for that day in Zwift under a header called “TrainingPeaks”. That would be a great selling feature TrainerRoad. I’m sure it is for TrainingPeaks.