I now have a headache, but I agree, so there’s that.
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What is wrong with the way zwift avoids the spiral of death?
Where did I say anything about Zwift?
I am not debating right or wrong, just explaining how I know it works in TR, nothing more.
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I’m not saying you did, but wanted to bring this back to the original post of a feature request to improve TR and try to get a real definition of what is wanted. The way it works now I think is not good
How much experience do you have doing interval workouts in erg mode on both TR and Zwift? And why do you think there is no way to use software to affect the behavior of erg mode?
i confess I know nothing about programming but I feel a difference between the two programs and for sure Zwift automatically switches out of erg mode (and back) based on perimeters so it certainly seems a programmer has options.
A direct reply to my post flags me as the one you were addressing, and the statement questioning something that I never even mentioned is confusing. So how you reply (which “Reply” button you use will give different results, one tags the person who made that reply, the other is an open reply to the post, not a user) and is helpful in understanding your intent and avoiding confusion.
I’m all for focusing on the Feature Request aspect and leave review of that to TR.
A truckload on TR, a little on Zwift.
Because I once was a control engineer, and I’ve read the FTMS and F-EC protocols - so I know how the control loop works in erg mode. Hint: it runs in the trainer, not in the app.
Yes, it may well do, and a programmer has options - but these options do not include changing the gains in the erg mode control loop. Again, there is a marked difference between using the interface to code off-target behavior, through mode changes etc, and somehow altering the control loop itself.
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I love Zwift’s workout mode but it is hard to sort out exactly what is going in on feel wise as the simulated movement definitely has a mental perception effect. For example intervals done while going uphill at a simulated 5 mph feel harder than the same intervals going downhill at 30 mph even though I know the watts and cadence are the same. The psychological effect may account for what I am feeling in a workout. But for sure the “escape from death spiral” feature is real and would be a nice add on for TR.
It’s psychological - I run Zwift and TR in parallel, using TR for the workout and trainer control and Zwift for the eye candy, and often end up in an interval cresting a hill - the feeling of having to maintain your power while going downhill takes some to get used to…
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Ditto, I have done a handful of actual Z workouts without TR. But 99.9% of my use is TR driving the trainer and Z for pure visual distraction. There is a real and potential impact on RPE from the visual indications. It can be similar when watching POV riding and racing videos on YouTube and such.
Pure Z on it’s own will be similar. It’s funny, as I’ve had people that are pure Z users make the claim that hills matter in ERG, and they swear to it at times, but they are just letting the head get in the way. 
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You can tell the weirdos doing TR in Zwift by one thing - their determination to go down that hill at high power, even if it’s steep enough to use a super-tuck.
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In zwift if you have a kickr climb the bike matches the hill. But you need to pair the controllable aspect to zwift to get that so no hill simulation in TR
One thing I have learned doing erg mode on Zwift over the last several months is that EVERYONE not riding in erg mode eases up on the power after cresting a climb. If we ever get to race again outside, folks should mind that lesson 
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It’s generally one of the best places to attack in a Zwift race. If you’re not concentrated, the power just drops without too many clues.
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That’s a special use case, and not what we were discussing.
The comments we reference are about people claiming that their ERG based workout gets harder or easier in relation to the terrain in Z. It does not, in any way shape or form impact the ERG controlled resistance applied to the trainer.
Climb use is something different, and I have not tested in Zwift workout specifically, sounds interesting though. I have tested it in TR and dislike the implementation, so I don’t use it there.
The mechanical engineer here says - if the power is the same, the cadence is the same, how can the resistance be different?
Your statement sounds like the classical hockey comment that “his shots are not very fast, but they are heavy”
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Sounds like I need to use a pure flat ERG workout at Endurance level, and roll through the new forest, which is very up and down (with Zwift minimized so I can’t see the course and see what happens. I’m with you, and expect ERG is ERG, with no hill impact. But I should run a blind test to be certain.
If it does somehow influence it, I see that as a HUGE bug, and would be shocked that people have not proven it and complained to Z to fix it.
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So if you hold a constant cadence, constant power, and a hill starts, something changes? Does a) the power go up? b) the perceived effort to maintain that power go up?
They would have to put in a bias on the power command, and bias the power indication the other way. In other words - add, say, 10% to the power target sent to the trainer, and subtract that 10% from the power indication. Anyone using a power meter would instantly see it.
Yeah, just seems odd and unlikely to me. I may need to swap my PowerTap pedals on for a test to really see.
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