This is where I think TR could do a better job. Maybe some instructional videos that discuss this, things to look for, how to adjust etc. I know a lot is covered on the podcasts but having that library readily accessible would be much nicer. Many people are also wearing devices these days that give quantifiable numbers of recovery/energy based on HRV (i.e. Whoop & Garmin), hearing how people should interpret those numbers with the TR workouts might be useful for some.
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It (SSB LV plans) works , I believe, because it has 2 days of high intensity - what âmostâ athletes really need for adaptation to occur - especially masters age like me. There are outliers that need more for sure. This leaves room for endurance/recovery rides and strength training without burning out (both muscle and CNS). Cheers.
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Exactly. I believe they addressed this in the podcast from two weeks ago. Which is to say that TR plans are not perfect. They donât claim it to be. They consistently encourage people to know what feels right and what is reaching or under performing and adjusting as they need to.
What they provide is a huge catalogue of structured workouts, some pretty darn good plans, and excellent podcasts to lean into the how and why of stuff (for free .99 too) in deep dives. And all this at a fraction of the cost of hiring a coach.
Ultimately itâs up to the individual to make calls of whether theyâre overreaching or not. Of whether they want to hire someone to analyze their particular data and prescribe training for them (Iâd be willing to bet that even then there would be times when the coach asked them to bite off more than they could chew). Critical to the success of ANY plan is consistency. Thatâs one thing Iâve loved about TR. I never feel like not getting on the bike, and know that while workouts are hard, I feel great once done.
Is it perfect? No. Neither, Iâd wager, is ANY coach. Iâd also wager that the vast majority of people arguing about it arenât pros whose pay checks depend on the efficacy or their coaching program. Soooo, why so serious?
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Simple explanation:
MOST Trainerroad subscribers, me included in the beginning had an inaccurate FTP set.
All trainerroad had to do was change the percentage of FTP that we use to set a riders baseline fitness and get away from the 95% of FTP figure on a 20 minute test. The talk of ( BURNOUT ) would be less.
Id be willing to wager this figure could realistically be closer to 75 to 80 % of a riders real FTP on a 20 minute test and maybe down to 70% of an 8 minute test. Especially new athletes or more importantly athletes who have a lot of seat time but are new to structured training. These are the athletes who know how to push an effort really hard, especially one effort or very few in a ride or workout which will of course overestimate what a rider can produce on a longer more " endurance " style effort.
This would also allow riders to really push out their SWEET SPOT riding intervals to lengths and time frames that will benefit them.
I like trainer road. I like the guys and their personalities and their knowledge. And its not an easy task to become this popular and be the best training program for every athlete on the spectrum.
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Almost an âon rampâ series of videos explaining how to use their program, common questions and pitfalls, how to adjust the programs to fit your needs. I like it.
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I have been coached by Hayley Simmonds from AeroCoach (150quid/month) and can only say good things about that also. In the first 13 months, I got my FTP up by around 80W, 280 to 360, while adjusting my training frequently to the things life throws at you (family, work, vacation, illness, lockdown).
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If people arenât doing endurance rides why does TR feel the need to replace them? Itâs a user failure, not a TR failure. Prescribing too much intensity then makes it a TR failure.
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This is a recurring theme Iâve noticed in several recent threads. Which customers view TR as âtheir coachâ vs which customers view TR as a âself-coaching toolâ. Sounds like we have the latter opinion of TR, but many view it as the former. I am curious how much comes down to age / experience, cycling experience, training experience, etc.
TR and TR plans probably get criticized by internet personalities and legit coaches all the time. I think if they tried to defensively respond to every one of those critiques they would be in perma-defense mode. I, personally, would not be responding or advise responding to every one of these.
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Replacing and 3 hour endurance ride with a 2 hour sweetspot ride is about the same in training stress. Though mentally there is a difference.
Yes! While I think the podcast and forum are a great additional resource, not everyone is going to want to search for that info or advice so having some videos (maybe only accessible for paid subs) that provide that instruction clearly (not podcast snippets either) I think would help with some of the common questions and pitfalls we see.
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mate, I think itâs because a VERY large amount of people that see the video either wonât watch it, or they will have a bias upon seeing the thumbnail.
Itâs actually the worst clickbait Iâve seen. You donât even need to watch the video to know how he feels about trainerroad as a company because the thumbnail is more than enough. Very unprofessional.
He already has lotâs of subs. He could have made this vid without that thumbail and it will still be popular.
But he didnât.
There are literally people on reddit and youtube saying that they were about to start TR but then stopped as soon as they âwatchedâ his video.
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Itâs not the 20 minute test that is the problem. Itâs using the assumption that a ramp test will tell you your ftp. That your FTP is 75% of your MAP.
This is a very dangerous assumption. And actually the more VO2max training you do the more problematic this can become.
I think if they made people do the kolie moore test a lot more people would survive their sweetspot assault
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The YT BEEF here is so delicious⌠this is as close as cycling will get to a hip hop diss trackâŚ
Dylan Johnson was responding to shots fired from AACC 296 Min: 12:45 which had its own staged response between Nate and Keegan to DJâs (Polarized Training vs. Sweet Spot (Dylan Johnson video)) . Nate P: âMy whole point on this, is not that no pros do Polarized, but just, actually I donât know any that do in cyclingâŚâ
DJ clearly references AACC 296 in his now infamous âProblem with TRâ vid. It must have also personally stung to see Keegan (âthe national champâ) pile on⌠DJ finished 4th behind Keegan in the Belgian Waffle Ride 2020. Nate adds salt to the wound, by asking if Keeganâs coach Jim coaches anyone else who is âhigh levelâ - haha only the champ, Kate CourtneyâŚ
All is fair in love and cycling⌠would love to see the throw down between Coach Chad and DJ.
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By looking at the plans page, I got some sort of wild idea. TR doesnât have to change their plan to reduce intensity.
- Low/Mid/High all have equal space on their web UI and people saying high volume should be done by those who knows themselves. It means low & mid volume is TRâs main recipe to be sold so high volume shouldnât have equal 1/3 space on the plans page. Others should get more space on UI to have meaning of significance.
- Low volume plans can be modified by added endurance
- mid volume and high volume have option of substituting Sunday rides with longer endurance one
- Thereby TR already has plans for reducing intensities. Theyâre just manual option written in weekly tips.
- Many people doesnât open weekly tips so doesnât know they have option to reduce intensity.
So⌠how about re-brand TRâs notion of volumes and let people know their are less-intensity versions of the plan way more obviously? For example
Low volume â Extra Rare
Low volume with added endurance â Rare
Mid Volume with Sunday workout replaced with shorter endurance â Medium Rare
Mid volume with Sunday workout replaced with longer endurance â Medium
Mid Volume â Medium Well
High Volume with Sunday workout replaced â Well done
High Volume â Overcooked
Higher intensity ones have higher order.
Wow 7 volume options already. Yes I named those just silly. I know too many options would make people confused. Just want to point out TR provide options for reducing intensity. If those reducing intensity process(like adding endurance or replace Sunday workout) can be part of the TR calendar feature(not manual process. If I choose Mid Volume and feel somewhat wasted in the middle of the plan, click on âreduce intensityâ button and the rest of the Sunday plan replaced with endurance one) I think people might have better chance not to fall into burn out state by explicitly knowing there are options for reducing intensity. For concerns of confusion for providing too many volume options, put recommended badge just like plan builder and show some compliance rate to convince people might do the trick.
For one who loves automating things, those are just my wishes so donât be harsh 
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Hmmm, I would argue physically itâs different as well. I recently switched out Sundayâs SS workouts for 3 hour z2 and I feel so much better. A little early to tell (in week 4 of Build), but it may have just saved me from being overtrained in Build for the 4th time.
TL;DR
Looks like a lot has happened on this thread since yesterday morning. Can someone sum it up for me? 
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heh. It probably took me a season to figure out what days to train on that worked best for me. I think part of the challenge here is that everyoneâs situation varies soo much, from days available to train, time available to train, ftp accuracy, attention span, etc, that I think itâs virtually impossible for them to cater to everyone and if thatâs the case, the ability to modify is one of itâs strengths. Perhaps they just need to make that a focus of education.
The strength of trainerroad is itâs a framework and one like a software development framework. All good frameworks benefit from engaged contributors extending, customizing, correcting, enhancing a framework. However, itâs the framework that makes all that possible and is indispensible. I think itâs this community, the podcast, etc, that gives folks the knowledge and tools they need to adapt the framework to their custom solution.
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We are all different in that. For me a two hour sweetspot workout isnât any harder than a three hour endurance workout. Though endurance is harder on the mind. Mostly for boredom and fitting it in my calendar.
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So to sum all this up. Trainerroad is crossfit.
Crossfit pros, dont do wods daily and work out 2 times a day and focus on different aspects, and augment training.
Crossfit bros - do a wod 5 days a week, till burned out or injuried.
Procyclists - use a lot of endurance and 10-20% above threshold.
Trainerbros - train 4/5 rides a week of high IF till burned out
The smart aka older people who have been around understand the issues and make changes to the standard plan to stay healthy.
What really could be done, is set up a study on TR and have group of people follow one plan and the other follow a different approach and determine who has better results. Call this BETATRAINING.
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To be honest, thatâs how I perceive almost everyone in this thread, you included. Which isnât a dig, but for the ones of us with a decade in on TR, a couple or few seasons wonât show the limitations that are very real. I obviously like the product in itâs entirety, I have been a long time subscriber, but the plans themselves run out of steam pretty quick, and itâs not blasphemy to speak openly and frankly about that.
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