This is a recurring theme I’ve noticed in several recent threads. Which customers view TR as ‘their coach’ vs which customers view TR as a ‘self-coaching tool’. Sounds like we have the latter opinion of TR, but many view it as the former. I am curious how much comes down to age / experience, cycling experience, training experience, etc.
TR and TR plans probably get criticized by internet personalities and legit coaches all the time. I think if they tried to defensively respond to every one of those critiques they would be in perma-defense mode. I, personally, would not be responding or advise responding to every one of these.
Yes! While I think the podcast and forum are a great additional resource, not everyone is going to want to search for that info or advice so having some videos (maybe only accessible for paid subs) that provide that instruction clearly (not podcast snippets either) I think would help with some of the common questions and pitfalls we see.
mate, I think it’s because a VERY large amount of people that see the video either won’t watch it, or they will have a bias upon seeing the thumbnail.
It’s actually the worst clickbait I’ve seen. You don’t even need to watch the video to know how he feels about trainerroad as a company because the thumbnail is more than enough. Very unprofessional.
He already has lot’s of subs. He could have made this vid without that thumbail and it will still be popular.
But he didn’t.
There are literally people on reddit and youtube saying that they were about to start TR but then stopped as soon as they ‘watched’ his video.
The YT BEEF here is so delicious… this is as close as cycling will get to a hip hop diss track…
Dylan Johnson was responding to shots fired from AACC 296 Min: 12:45 which had its own staged response between Nate and Keegan to DJ’s (Polarized Training vs. Sweet Spot (Dylan Johnson video)) . Nate P: “My whole point on this, is not that no pros do Polarized, but just, actually I don’t know any that do in cycling…”
DJ clearly references AACC 296 in his now infamous “Problem with TR” vid. It must have also personally stung to see Keegan (“the national champ”) pile on… DJ finished 4th behind Keegan in the Belgian Waffle Ride 2020. Nate adds salt to the wound, by asking if Keegan’s coach Jim coaches anyone else who is “high level” - haha only the champ, Kate Courtney…
All is fair in love and cycling… would love to see the throw down between Coach Chad and DJ.
Low/Mid/High all have equal space on their web UI and people saying high volume should be done by those who knows themselves. It means low & mid volume is TR’s main recipe to be sold so high volume shouldn’t have equal 1/3 space on the plans page. Others should get more space on UI to have meaning of significance.
Low volume plans can be modified by added endurance
mid volume and high volume have option of substituting Sunday rides with longer endurance one
Thereby TR already has plans for reducing intensities. They’re just manual option written in weekly tips.
Many people doesn’t open weekly tips so doesn’t know they have option to reduce intensity.
So… how about re-brand TR’s notion of volumes and let people know their are less-intensity versions of the plan way more obviously? For example
Low volume → Extra Rare
Low volume with added endurance → Rare
Mid Volume with Sunday workout replaced with shorter endurance → Medium Rare
Mid volume with Sunday workout replaced with longer endurance → Medium
Mid Volume → Medium Well
High Volume with Sunday workout replaced → Well done
High Volume → Overcooked
Higher intensity ones have higher order.
Wow 7 volume options already. Yes I named those just silly. I know too many options would make people confused. Just want to point out TR provide options for reducing intensity. If those reducing intensity process(like adding endurance or replace Sunday workout) can be part of the TR calendar feature(not manual process. If I choose Mid Volume and feel somewhat wasted in the middle of the plan, click on ‘reduce intensity’ button and the rest of the Sunday plan replaced with endurance one) I think people might have better chance not to fall into burn out state by explicitly knowing there are options for reducing intensity. For concerns of confusion for providing too many volume options, put recommended badge just like plan builder and show some compliance rate to convince people might do the trick.
For one who loves automating things, those are just my wishes so don’t be harsh
Hmmm, I would argue physically it’s different as well. I recently switched out Sunday’s SS workouts for 3 hour z2 and I feel so much better. A little early to tell (in week 4 of Build), but it may have just saved me from being overtrained in Build for the 4th time.
heh. It probably took me a season to figure out what days to train on that worked best for me. I think part of the challenge here is that everyone’s situation varies soo much, from days available to train, time available to train, ftp accuracy, attention span, etc, that I think it’s virtually impossible for them to cater to everyone and if that’s the case, the ability to modify is one of it’s strengths. Perhaps they just need to make that a focus of education.
The strength of trainerroad is it’s a framework and one like a software development framework. All good frameworks benefit from engaged contributors extending, customizing, correcting, enhancing a framework. However, it’s the framework that makes all that possible and is indispensible. I think it’s this community, the podcast, etc, that gives folks the knowledge and tools they need to adapt the framework to their custom solution.
We are all different in that. For me a two hour sweetspot workout isn’t any harder than a three hour endurance workout. Though endurance is harder on the mind. Mostly for boredom and fitting it in my calendar.
Crossfit pros, dont do wods daily and work out 2 times a day and focus on different aspects, and augment training.
Crossfit bros - do a wod 5 days a week, till burned out or injuried.
Procyclists - use a lot of endurance and 10-20% above threshold.
Trainerbros - train 4/5 rides a week of high IF till burned out
The smart aka older people who have been around understand the issues and make changes to the standard plan to stay healthy.
What really could be done, is set up a study on TR and have group of people follow one plan and the other follow a different approach and determine who has better results. Call this BETATRAINING.
To be honest, that’s how I perceive almost everyone in this thread, you included. Which isn’t a dig, but for the ones of us with a decade in on TR, a couple or few seasons won’t show the limitations that are very real. I obviously like the product in it’s entirety, I have been a long time subscriber, but the plans themselves run out of steam pretty quick, and it’s not blasphemy to speak openly and frankly about that.
I watched the video and thought it was a fair critique.
I’ve commented in the past about how even low volume TR plans have too much intensity - especially if the ramp test happens to overstate your FTP and/or if you are a masters athlete.
Here is the first 5 weeks of LV SSBII:
2 Sweet Spot workouts
4 VO2max
8 Threshold
Yes, to summarise, it doesn’t matter what DJ says because:
“You shouldn’t be following the TR plan anyway”
“The plans work for me so its fine”
“The science shows pyramidal plans are as good as polarised, therefore TR must be pyramidal”
“The science on polarized is shaky, so better not to get involved in science at all”
“DJ is on youtube, therefore everything he says in incorrect”
I am not planning to read the whole thing. I am also looking for TL;DR…
But I think I know whats going on.
3 camps.
The TR defenders - TR have dont nothing wrong. I do SST-HV all the time and I have gain 500w in 6 weeks!
The TR is good, but can be better. Ive done TR but I have felt the burn sometimes while doing LV plans. Maybe something can change to make this better.
The TR is horrible. TR is the worst of all. I dont know why I pay for this garbage.
I think i am camp #2. I love the idea of TR. I love the Tri plan, and I think they can do better.
Right now I am doing my own plan. 1 day or Vo2Max, 1 day of SS, 1 day LR of endurance, and few days of lower intensity, including actual recovery rides (like today, 60 minutes at 0.5. It felt good).
