Wasn’t Bottrill coached by Stern?
I have only read 509 posts here, but so far this is the best one (and should really be a good place to end the thread.)
Bruce
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You nailed it. Dylan is partially guilty, and a lot of viewers are absolutely guilty, of attaching themselves to one or a couple of published articles as validation of a perspective, when true research scientists never, ever suggest anything is proof or “causes” anything. We speak of correlations and associations, never of proof or certainty. Folks are accusing TR of not following science when the science is anything but settled, and based on studies with plenty of holes in their approach
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They’re marketing the tech too. Make no mistake. You get none of what you copied and pasted without good tech. But you can still come up short, even with the best tech, especially if you overreach. Just play to your strengths, that is my point.
Exactly. That why DJ was more or less “asked to leave” as a coach at his previous job. The company was embarrassed and didn’t want to be associated with DJ’s behavior on YouTube.
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These are the only reviews I can find at the moment.
The conclusion would seem to be that although there seem to be multiple patches to success, most elite athletes train pyramidal, not polarized.
Thus, even if you accept Seiler’s premise that what elite athletes do represents “best practices” - which is a dumb idea to begin with - polarized is apparently not the way to go.
Bob Tobin mostly I believe.
Welcome to the world of that which passes for sports “science”.
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Ah right. So was Tobin associated with Stern, or am I mixing up my Brits?
Fully agree. I challenge anyone to find a more cost-effective training solution. I wouldn’t be where I’m at today without TR, and I never would have been able to convince my spouse that hiring a coach was worth the money. Still can’t.
That being said, I think the real value of TR comes when you learn enough about yourself as an athlete and take the liberties of making adjustments to training plans (and or creating custom workouts) to better suit your individual needs and goals. For some this comes at the cost of burning out or having to fail multiple workouts to realize their FTP is over-estimated. A coach could likely mitigate this much quicker, but you pay…A LOT MORE.
That being said, I fully agree with most of what Dylan has to say. I haven’t followed a TR plan as-is in 3 or 4 years as I found them to either lack enough time-in-zone for my needs or just contain far too much intensity.
To defend TR, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard anyone from the team blindly suggest all athletes jump right into a mid-vol plan. In fact, Chad has always taken a conservative stance and has on many occasions advocated for a less-is-more approach. I.e. start with low-volume, and then adjust.
However, I would like to see them assess their current plan library and add revamp the Mid Vol Base Plan to account for 18 weeks and a more gradual distribution of intensity.
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i agree
long Z2 ride on the trainer isn’t for everyone. It took me awhile to get to the level of where I’m doing 9+hrs of Z2 ride per week on the trainer.
Few things that helped:
-Nice pair of Bibs
-Chamois Cream
-using HR rather than power for Z2 ride
-Ride buddy using discord or zoom
-long zwift group endurance rides.
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Who pays less the £400 a month and expects value from it? Considering experience etc. and looking for a decent amount of time actually focussed on you as an individual I can’t see how anything like £180 a month for a coach is going to give you more than TR, Zwift or any other plan you could follow. £180 a month is likely to be giving you less than 4 hours or actual coach time and you have to question the level of experience or attention being offered, how can that be enough to develop an individual plan? What’s a reasonable hourly charge? £50 isn’t much - 1 hour of contact time a week plus 1 hour of planning a week. Not much input for your £400…
My point is really - don’t underestimate the experience, energy and focussed time that a quality coach puts into athletes.
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There is a difference between giving a nobody a platform to advertise their business and digging into general training questions. The latter might as well happen. The team does that on a weekly basis on the podcast.
For what it’s worth, this thread is stricken with people who have just registered very recently or are on an account that was mute for years.
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exactly.
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I’d just add that it’s not just your FTP but also switching/removing workouts/volume and making adjustments per your needs/abilities.
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I would tend to agree with this, at least for athletes that are not used to structured training. Maybe if you’ve been doing it consistently for the past 5-10 years it won’t be an issue but for someone off the couch (using myself as an example) event he low volume can be too much. Plus I think if you are only doing TR workouts you are likely doing yourself a disservice. For me at least, I need some variety to keep it interesting otherwise I just end up hating to get on the bike.
I think they almost need to rename the plans to something like “Standard Volume”, “Intense Volume” and “Insane Volume”, that might help with the more is better perception.
This goes with my variety statement above. Earlier in 2020 I was getting bored with just doing TR workouts, tried to sprinkle some Zwift group rides and events in but then the lockdown came and I just got off the bike for a few months. I started back up in August with just SSBLV and between being bored and probably too much intensity for basically being off the couch I stopped.
In December I got back on the bike, just with Zwift group rides, then big events and I’ve increased by FTP by 40W in that time. I do plan on starting a TR plan soon because I think there is going to be a limit how far I can go with zero structure but I’m going to be doing a lot of adjustments this time around and going to emphasize enjoyment over structure.
Which other way got more people faster?
If you have a training plan that 100% of participants can’t maintain it doesn’t seem relevant whether it’s a psychological breakdown or a physical one. The result is the same.
My broader point is that these studies don’t really support your original post.
My son is training for an ultramarathon (running). He is 15 years old.
I happily do pay about $300/month to his CTS coach, because the coach provides personalized insight for the training schedule, nutrition, recovery, strategy, etc. He is always happy to speak on the phone with my son (and me… as a worried Dad) about the plan and progress. To me, the money is absolutely worth it. The coach is a professional; this isn’t his first rodeo – and maybe (maybe) after the first or second ultramarathon, my son would consider self-coaching. At this point in his development and for his specific goals, a personal coach is an investment, not an expense.
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