The more I read the more I’m convinced of the approach of Tim Cusick. There is a time for high volume and low intensity, there is a time for threshold training, there is a time for pyramidal distribution and a time for polarized training. It is not about what is the best but when is what the best…
That sounds more like projection on your part. I remember watching this video when it came out, and I thought Johnson’s criticism was spot on in that case. Of course, I have to go on trust that Johnson’s representation of Zwift workouts is accurate. But as I wrote above, I think he tries is best to be fair minded and well-informed. But that is quite different from being right every time.
My biggest take away from this thread is that someone that trains “high volume” (10hrs/week) on a smart trainer and never rides their bike outside is telling everyone else what the best way to train is 
I think the big issue with a plan like this is that no body does the same thing when they go ride outside. Some people just spin in Z1/2 and enjoy the sunshine, some do a coffee shop ride with friends and a spirited hill or two, some do an all out smash fest race simulation, and then others MTB. So having a templated plan would be extremely difficult.
As @Nate_Pearson mentioned, if they can get AT to properly identify and quantify the unstructured outdoor work and suggest workouts to fill in the holes then that would be super ideal for a huge group of people.
I took his post to mean that people would do ~2 days structured indoors and then ride unstructured outside other days. So the trainer days were just supplemental or to fill in gaps. Obviously if you are riding structured outside then a new program isn’t necessarily need since you just do the scheduled workout outside.
So I’m not sure how this differs from the existing plans…you can already load up a MV plan and then just do the scheduled workouts outside. Or a close approximation or replacement. It isn’t stated explicitly but if there is an OU workout scheduled then a real hard paceline race-y ride would probably be a good sub. Or sub a 1.5 hour SS workout with a 2.5 hour endurance ride.
I guess I’m not seeing a difference between 2 structured workouts and then some suggested outdoor ones and 4 structured workouts that you then just execute or adapt 2 of them to outside.
That’s true, but I think it’s a lot different to not follow a plan at all and come up with it on your own than it is to take a plan and sub some workouts for rides that still keep the same basic structure. But I definitely won’t argue that it’s perfect and that people still struggle with doing it appropriately or being confident in how to deviate from the schedule.
I’ve been following FasCat’s plans for a couple months now and instead of strict SS intervals on the weekends they have “SS group rides” that have TSS targets and directions to try to spend blocks of 15-30 min on the front of the group riding in SS. So they have a lot of freedom while still offering some progression in terms of volume (they build from 2hrs to 4.5hrs over many weeks) that I think would lead to less fear of altering the plan for more beginner riders. So something like that might be a good thing to add, maybe to the weekly notes. Though who knows how many people actually read those.
If FasCat’s podcast is anything to go by, it seems he, surprise, surprise, combines a sweat spot-centric block with later blocks that emphasize Z2 more, i. e. that is more polarized. Seems very sensible.
This is my first time using their plans and I’m only ~6-7 weeks through their 18weeks of sweet spot. But it seems to me that so far it starts out with sweet spot, tempo and endurance with increasing volume and then they start adding things like burst intervals and higher intensities, then as you move into their “interval” plans it becomes more polarized.
In his podcast, he outlines a progression that sounds great for someone who doesn’t have kids (or a very understanding partner): increase Z2 weekend rides in 30-minute increments up until either 4:30 or 5 hours.
Yup and it’s definitely geared toward someone who is going to be riding both indoor and outdoor. The weekends are typically structured as “sweet spot group ride” on Saturday and an endurance ride on Sunday
My wife got a real chuckle when I told her his last podcast suggested that your progression should/could be to 5 hour rides on EACH of Saturday and Sunday…
Lucky you. Mine would go berserk.
Mine would probably think for a second to gauge whether this is one of my bad jokes or I am serious 
On the Valentine’s Day episode of the FasCat podcast where an athlete told Coach Frank “don’t get me divorced”. That hit a nerve 
That’s the spirit. Guess our non-athlete partners are already putting up with a lot.
I always find it interesting when people bring up their partner when it comes to riding your bike (or doing any other type of hobby for that matter)…
My girlfriend happily has some alone time and spends time doing her own hobbys when I ride a few hours on Saturday or Sunday…
I mean if we get up at 8am and go to bed at 10pm, its not like we don’t have time to spend time together for the remaining 8 hours, if I ride for 4 hours… and I would say that we are both more engaging during our time together since we have both done our hobbies for the day.
I have friends that have to ask for permission from their girlfriends to go for a weekend ride, and even have friends who stopped riding because their girlfriends don’t support riding…
And of course, you can be smart about it… get up early and ride, come back home and have brunch together 
Do you have children? Before we did, spending half a day in the boonies was no problem.
Now we have a daughter and we hope there’ll be another on the way soon. My wife goes to the gym three times a week, she has violin lessons once a week and until last month she took vocal lessons. She has plenty of hobbies. Our daughter also has music lessons on Sundays. It’s not that my wife doesn’t know what to do with her spare time, it’s when you have children that free time requires you to have a baby sitter — which means it is decidedly not free time for the other partner. Organizing our schedules is like playing tetris.
Also, even if you don’t have children, if you have a busy worklife during the week, you need to take care of the “logistics” during the weekend. If each one is using 2x5 hours of the WE to do his hobby (even if synchronized), it means the remaning time spent together is for grocery shopping, working in garden or at the house, bring the car for repair, go to the pressing etc. Not really what my wife and I expects from couple life. Like visiting some cities, go for a hike in the forrest behind the house, go out and have a sunday lunch in a good restaurant etc.
In addition, if I am doing a 5 hour ride in the morning, chances are good that I need a nap in the afternoon and find myself not really motivated to do anything else than just sit on the couch watching netflix or the belgian classics.
No kids! I tried to formulate myself towards couples without kids - and the lack of understanding of a lot of partners. And how I see that as an issue when it comes to personal time, personal growth and all those other things that might be set aside if you have to ask permission of a partner to do things…
Totally understandable when one has kids, happily get up at 5am to ride with my friends who has kids 
Seems like you are on the High Volume Sweet Spot Plan… 
Have you tried doing zone 2 for the 5 hour rides?
Jokes aside…
Totally understand your viewpoint as well… its a balance Like I mentioned previous, I just seem to have a lot of people around me with partners that has total lack if understanding of hobbies. No one would bat an eye if one were discussing evening drinks with friends, but god forbid 4-5 hours on the bike! 