Dylan Johnson's "The Problem with TrainerRoad Training Plans": it's gonna be a busy day around here

1 Like

Interesting rabbit hole, look into why/how the meter became a meter… not so logical.

You say meter. I say metre. :rofl:

2 Likes

Thanks!
To be honest, I’m still trying to figure out how much I can actually take and I am purposefully challenging myself a little this season. And right now my current MV+ plan might be too much: I have some family stuff going on that makes it harder for me to sleep — and I can feel that workouts are harder (in terms of RPE). When I was sleeping well, it was smooth sailing, though.

With that in mind, somewhat random schemes might be…

How about naming after them after TR podcast personalities…

Jon (LV)
Chad (LV+)
Ivy (MV)
Pete (MV+)
Amber (HV)
Keegan (HV+, comes with a warning plus you have to drink).

And Nate (Trad Base).

1 Like

That’s a great idea. Make a 1 or 2 day a week plan and call that ā€œLow Volumeā€.

9 Likes

Maybe we should have an intensity equivalent. IE High volume is for people ā€œridingā€ 15-20 hours per week? I don’t know if those numbers are accurate so don’t quote me but that could be another idea.

4 Likes

1000x yes on this! We’ve done a poor job of this and we’re paying for it now.

I’ve even thought about ā€œunlockingā€ plans. Like you can’t go to mid-volume until you do your low volume work. Same with high volume. If you can’t accomplish high volume, you fall back to mid.

I think people would get really mad if we did this but we could probably accomplish something similar with CTAs and prompts.

15 Likes

I’m not really sure on a fix so kind of feel like I should respond but… Say someone does ride many hours in a week as part of group rides (weekend warrior who also does rides after work). That doesn’t mean they are ready for that many hours of structured training. This is the problem I have with xert, sure I did long group rides in the past but I’m not at all ready for the 3 hour structured workouts it gives me.

High volume doesn’t mean they’re ready for high volume that is also at a high intensity

5 Likes

Once you get some way of detecting their recovery status (the hvr during warmup and cool down of workouts I suggested in a different thread, maybe) to see if their body can handle it you could have a trial week or two weeks where they have to do well or it changes the training plan down a level (high to mid, etc)

I definitely think you should guide and cajole rather than push :smiley:

While you need to manoeuvre users towards the probable correct plan for them you also (IMO) need to allow them to make errors as well. It’s not a one way street and there’s personal responsibility and accountability needed from the users point of view as well.

6 Likes

That’s an excellent idea.

Even before that we could look at survey response or workout compliance. We could also check out HR response but that gets tricky fast.

1 Like

What about something like ā€œWelcome to structured trainingā€ - a short video locked into the app for first time users. Take them through TSS, IF, Zones and interface. Give clear ā€œwarningsā€ for new users. ā€œIf you’re new to structure, here are the principles. Endurance is X, tempo is…etc. VO2 should start out with very short durations, SS can be done Y. etc etc.ā€

You could even suggest a ā€œWarmup Weekā€ - a week or two taking someone through the zones. One workout in each zone, maybe skipping out anaerobic and sprint.

Or, and I’m being serious here, one workout that’s essentially mini-Disaster. ā€œHere’s what SS feels like, here’s VO2, Fireworks is brutal, but here it isā€¦ā€

Might help inform new users what to expect when they look at a workout if they choose not to follow a plan.

8 Likes

I’m not saying surveys are bad, I think they’re needed, but I think there needs to be input that doesn’t depend on the user. Especially for those who are new who might think hv and mv are hard as they don’t have a good base to compare to. You’re current training with tr staff might lead to better survey answers then the population at large.

I also don’t think workout compliance is useful in that if they are serious about wanting to push themselves they may be compliant until it’s too late and they pushed their bodies too far.

Heart rate drift might be easy to use. In that this check would mostly be used when people start the base plan where intervals are long. So easy to cut off the first minute or so of an interval and see how much their hr changes from the beginning to the end of the workout

For new users who aren’t used to structured workouts indoors at all that could be very useful as it also gives the side benefit of allowing the chance at another ramp test after a week. Sure, most people won’t increase the their ftp much in a week but if this is your first time in a trainer in erg mode the results of a ramp test may change a good amount. At least it did for me

2 Likes

Have they commented on the DJ’s YouTube video at all? Not in the Ask the Cycling Coach 298 for sure it was all about the AT. But I hope they will…

Podcast 299 is meant to address training via deep dive. They recorded it on Thursday, but didn’t like the results. They are planning to resort the episode and release sometime next week.

2 Likes

The only direct comment to the video so far was on last weeks podcast. Basically Nate quickly saying that they don’t agree with how the study on the video was interpreted and also that they don’t agree how TR as a product was presented.

Rounding up with referring to next episodes deep dive on ā€œpolarised trainingā€ (whatever that even means these days, but I’m sure they’ll enlighten us :sweat_smile:)

1 Like
2 Likes

Coach Overton @ Fascat touches a bit on when and how to use sst vs polarized in the latest podcast.

ā€œI’m not trying to start a polarized v sweet spot debate – I think, we (at FasCat think) you should do both and when you combine them together you’ll ride your fastest. Its taken me/us close to 20 years of training, racing, analyzing to articulate that to you all when everyone else is busy arguing which side they are on. The answer from the coaches is BOOOOOTTTHHHH!! Polarized training gets you so far just like sweet spot training only gets you so far. But when you combine the two together, when you switch from base to race: whammo – that’s the stuff of peak performances.ā€ - Long Rides, Coaches v Scientists, Sweet Spot AND Polarized – FasCat Coaching

14 Likes